It has been six full years since Prince William announced his engagement to Catherine Middleton at Clarence House on November 16, 2010. Can you believe that? Let’s rewind the clock six years to take a look back at how that all went down.
On November 16, 2010, Clarence House officially announced that William and Kate were engaged after eight years of dating. The full press release:
“The Prince of Wales is delighted to announce the engagement of Prince William to Miss Catherine Middleton. The wedding will take place in the Spring or Summer of 2011, in London. Further details about the wedding day will be announced in due course.
“Prince William and Miss Middleton became engaged in October during a private holiday in Kenya. Prince William has informed The Queen and other close members of his family. Prince William has also sought the permission of Miss Middleton’s father.
“Following the marriage, the couple will live in North Wales, where Prince William will continue to serve with the Royal Air Force.”
The press release is standard and not at all the most interesting thing about William and Kate’s engagement announcement. The most interesting part is the behind-the-scenes of it all. The announcement was made at 11:00 AM, but no one on the royal side of things even knew about the engagement until two hours prior to the announcement – at 9:00 AM – however the Middleton side of things had known for weeks.
At 9:00 AM on November 16, William told his staff that he and Kate were engaged and to arrange a press conference to announce the news. Only then did William call the Queen to inform her of the engagement. William then called his father, Prince Charles, to inform him of the engagement. William then informed Prince Harry of the news by reportedly saying: “You’ve got a sister.” Apparently there was quite a bit of grumbling about the way William handled telling his staff of the news.
The Middletons, however, had known about the engagement for weeks. According to William and Kate, they got engaged in Kenya in October, and William “had been carrying [the ring] around with [him] in [his] rucksack for about three weeks”. According to William and Kate, William proposed to Kate without telling anyone because he had “the realization that [Kate’s father] might actually say ‘no'”, but he “managed to speak to Mike soon after it happened”.
William and Kate went on a shooting trip with Carole and Michael Middleton at Birkhall (Charles’ residence at Balmoral in Scotland) a week after William and Kate returned from Africa. Kate spoke to her mother about the engagement after returning from that trip to Scotland.
William and Kate postponed their engagement announcement as Kate’s grandfather, Peter Middleton, died. The funeral was held Friday, November 12, 2010. Quite interesting that they delayed their engagement announcement a couple of weeks due to Kate’s grandfather’s death yet still didn’t tell William’s family or staff about the engagement until two hours prior to telling the world.
In accordance with the Royal Marriages Act 1772, the Queen gave her formal consent to the marriage at the February 9, 2011 Privy Council held at Buckingham Palace.
Some trivia: The Royal Marriages Act 1772 was repealed and replaced in 2013, in accordance with the 2011 Perth Agreement, with the Succession to the Crown Act 2013 which replaced male-preference primogeniture with absolute primogeniture, and removed the requirement of those outside the first six people in line to the throne to seek the Sovereign’s approval to marry.
The press conference was held in the afternoon in the State Apartments at St. James’s Palace. Below is a video of the press conference – just as a warning, there is a lot of flash photography in the video. I’m not going to quote the video but I will offer a couple of thoughts on their answers:
- I think it’s quite odd that William and Kate were so squirrelly about answering the “Did William get down on one knee” question. It’s such an innocuous question that everyone gets asked, so I’m not sure why answering it is somehow breaking their privacy rule.
- I think Kate’s answer to the “What does she love about William” question is very telling of her personality and their dynamic: “Over the years William’s looked after me, he’s treated me sort of very well as the great sort of loving boyfriend he is but um no he’s very, very supportive of me um in good times and also through the bad times and um you know that’s, that’s very special to me.”
William decided to give Kate Princess Diana‘s engagement ring because, as he said, “this was my way of keeping her close to it all” because “obviously she’s not going to be around to share any of the fun and excitement of it all.”
After Prince Charles got engaged to then Lady Diana Spencer in 1981, Diana chose a sapphire and diamond engagement ring from the Garrard catalogue which cost £28,000 at the time. The ring features a 12 carat oval blue Ceylon sapphire surrounded by 14 diamonds set in 18 carat white gold.
How the ring ended up on Kate’s finger is a slight point of contention. Supposedly it was Harry who picked out the ring originally, but William ended up giving it to Kate. Christopher Andersen wrote in September 2003 issue of Vanity Fair that:
“Four months after the funeral, it was Burrell [Editor’s note: Paul Burrell, Diana’a former butler] who opened the black front door to Kensington Palace and welcomed the boys for one last walk through the apartments they had shared with their mother… Then, as a tearful Harry held on tight to Burrell, they walked from room to room, picking out mementos to take with them to their new rooms at St. James’s Palace. Among other things, William chose the Cartier Tank watch that the Princess always wore – a gift from her father, the eighth Earl Spencer. Harry picked out the sapphire-and-diamond engagement ring given by Charles to the blushing ‘Shy Di’ when she was just 19.”
According to Today, Harry decided that “the ring should be on the finger of the future queen of England and gave it to William to give to his fiancee” but People says “the brothers reportedly agreed that whoever got engaged first would use it.” Either way, the ring was not in Harry’s possession at the time; William took the ring from a royal safe in what has been described as a “cloak-and-dagger” operation.
I’ve read that William did not ask Harry’s permission before taking the ring to give to Kate and that Harry only found out about Kate wearing Diana’s ring when he watched the press conference, but I cannot find any sources for that information other than blogs and forums.
For the engagement announcement press conference and interview, Kate wore a blue Issa Draped Jersey Dress, black pumps, and Cabochon by the Yard necklace and earrings by Elsa Peretti for Tiffany & Co to compliment her sapphire engagement ring.
This dress didn’t make it into my Top 25 Favorites list for some reason but I’ve always loved this dress.
William and Kate sat down with ITN’s Tom Bradby (who is the husband of designer Claudia who worked with Kate at Jigsaw) for an interview about their engagement. The full interview is below. I’m not quoting the whole thing, but here are some thoughts:
- Interesting how Kate falters when saying “Yes” to “He produced the ring” in Kenya.
- I think it’s hilarious that William is speaking about what Kate’s meeting with the Queen at Peter and Autumn’s wedding was like since he wasn’t even there. He went to Jecca Craig’s brother’s wedding in Africa instead.
- Kate’s answer to a question about the 2007 breakup: “I think I at the time I wasn’t very happy about it, but actually it made me a stronger person, you find out things about yourself that maybe you hadn’t realised, or I think you can get quite consumed by a relationship when you are younger and I really valued that time for me as well although I didn’t think it at the time.” I mean, on the one hand it’s an answer that is relatable to many women and men who get out of relationships and do some introspection and learn about themselves, but on the other hand did Kate really change much from before the breakup to after the breakup? It’s not like she lead an independent life after they got back together. She was still consumed by the relationship.
- I find it interesting that William cuts Kate off about the question of whether she wanted him to hurry up and ask her to marry him. And then he talks about the timing being right for him in terms of his training and flying.
- Kate’s answer to a question about Diana and entering the royal family is a bit of a word salad. Obviously… obviously… you know… you know… you know… inspirational.
- Kate: “I am looking forward to helping as much as I can.” BAHAHHAHAHAHA
- BTW, Kate never says she doesn’t care what people think about her. About negative comments about her and her family she did say: “you can only be sort of true to yourself and you sort of have to ignore a lot of what’s said, obviously take it on board, but you know you have to be yourself really and that’s how I have stuck by it really.” But that’s not saying she doesn’t care what people think of her.
This photo amuses me to no end.
Links: Prince of Wales website; Telegraph; Express; Privy Council notes; Vanity Fair; Today; People; full interview transcript; Tom Bradby for the Daily Mail about the interview.
242 thoughts on “Royal Rewind: The Engagement of Prince William and Catherine Middleton”
Hindsight is a beautiful thing. Those things you listed made me say hmm back then. Now they kind of make sense. We were so innocent back then, we believed her when she said she’d hit the ground running
I didn’t even pay attention to what they said back then – I never watched the interview or press conference at the time. The first time I heard Kate speak was when she said “I will”, and for some reason I was surprised at her British accent (which I shouldn’t have been because, you know, she’s British).
There have been several things about what Kate said in these two interviews mentioned over and over again on blogs and forums, but I listened to the interviews several times and Kate never said any of them in the way they have been told over the years. Like Kate never said she was going to “hit the ground running”, at least not in those terms, that was something the press made up. She also never said she didn’t care what people thought of her – that’s something that’s been twisted over the many retellings of what she said.
She didn’t say the words but she gave us all the impression that she can do the job. The thing I thought was weird was William’s family not knowing about the engagement, even though he literally needed HM’s permission to marry. He didn’t even tell Harry! Asif he knew they would try to persuade him to change his mind…
What I think is odd is that W&K waited weeks specifically because Kate’s grandfather died and *still* didn’t tell William’s family about the engagement. That had weeks to tell them and didn’t.
Especially with how close the press makes William and Harry out to be. I honestly can’t imagine getting engaged and not telling my sisters for weeks.
I think it tells us even then 1) not very close to his family
2)it’s always his way, not going to listen/talk to anyone else
I paid no attention to the two at the time but wow has Kate changed. You should’ve done a side by side of her then and now!
You can really tell how the extensions and wiglets are in force now when looking at her longer but obviously thinner hair in that photograph.
The childhood scar nonsense was really the beginning of the pack of lies KP has been trying to sell for years now.
How do we know for sure the timing of him giving the Queen (!) and other family members only 2 hours’ notice?
Because a ridiculous amount of articles from the time said he only gave everyone 2 hours notice. You could say it’s all speculation or hearsay, but many, many articles said the exact same timeline.
With all do respect, I’d like to point out you just wrote “there have been several things about what Kate said in these two interviews mentioned over and over again on blogs and forums, but I listened to the interviews several times and Kate never said any of them in the way they have been told over the years….that’s something that’s been twisted over the many retellings of what she said”. Those claims are easily disputed by watching the interview, yet are still constantly bandied about as fact.
I imagine in William’s case the truth lays somewhere in-between. Without some kind of proof I won’t believe he didn’t tell “anyone” in his family or the palace until two hours before the announcement. Some were likely told before others and all would’ve preferred more notice, but two hours? For everyone? I personally find that doubtful.
With all due respect, I think there is a huge difference between people on the internet playing the internet comment section version of telephone for six years and distorting what Kate said, and reliable news publications printing information on the day of the announcement.
If you want to disbelieve what the news publications wrote on the day or say they didn’t print all the facts then that’s fine but don’t equate that to the internet comment section distorting quotes over many years because those two things aren’t the same at all.
I can’t find them now, but I remember seeing interviews around the time of the wedding with people like Ingrid Steward (sp?) and other royal “experts” who pointed out that Kate would be the most educated consort ever, the first true commoner (and have that implied commoner touch), and was crazy tall and beautiful and fashionable. But I don’t remember Kate or a Middleton ever making those claims, or even sanctioning them. And, honestly, it would have been weird for her to say at the time “no, no. I’m not actually going to work very much at all, and I hate public speaking, so I won’t be doing much of that either.” The only thing Kate ever claimed was that she wanted to help, in whatever small way she could.
‘Hitting the ground running’ was in the Palace statement and PR that was launched after the announcement.
For the 6months of the engagement, the Palace directly sanctioned articles that mentioned how ‘she was the most prepared in-law ever’, ‘ she couldn’t wait to work hard’, ‘she was going to hit the ground running’, ‘most educated royal bride’, ‘couldn’t wait to get started’ repeatedly.
The tabloids added sugary articles about how she had saved William, how lovely the middletons were, how they were saving the monarchy with this marriage.
It was an on-slaught. Like the recent ‘Harry with Meghan’ media except this was in service of promoting Kate and erasing her party girl image.
Sidenote: there was tiny bit of vinegar in the coverage because they invoked Diana in every single article. I remember feeling pity for Kate because even the commemorative engagement booklet had more about Diana than the actual bride.
My mother has Anne, Charles, Andrew commemorative booklets, so we could compare.
My mother and i discussed what a burden the Diana comparison was going to be for Kate because she was practically anointed a Superhero to outshine Diana and save William, BRF and Britain by extension.
No hyperbole was too much.
Then 3 days after the wedding, the Palace releases a statement that she wasn’t going to do any of the things they had said spent 6months telling the public she would do.
Instead, she was going to go back to Anglesey and be suzie homemaker housewife and join the RAF wives, and she wasn’t going to work at all because she needed to settle into geing a wife.
Complete with this arranged pap stroll at her local Anglesey waitrose.
It was at this point that the media made up the Queen in Malta story to cover up this embarrassing u-turn.
Some talking heads started saying the The Queen and Philip had decamped to Malta for her first 2 years of marriage and she had been a happy housewife with no royal duties. Kate and William were merely following this example.
Sidenote: we know it’s a lie because the national archives hold the record of her time in Malta. Firstly, they didn’t go to Malta until 2yrs into their Marriage and even then, only Philip stayed for the full 2yrs. She visited him 4 times during those 2 yrs. For 2mths at a time. She had a more relaxed, relatively normal life on Malta, but she had already taken up royal duties and was deputising for her father during those 2yrs and was thus needed in England. There are records of her work during this time plus the kids stayed in England the entire time, mostly living with Grannie Queen Mum. ( a time also misrepresented by The Crown TV show)
Many people bought this lie about WK until they saw that it was indeed a lie especially when Kate kept getting papped in London and she refused to join the RAF wives and refused to name a single charity she might be interested in. The Palace kept sending out these articles saying she was looking and would announce soon, but nought, until Richard at the Express wrote a scathing article about Kate’s shopaholic habit vs non existent work. Soon after that, a schedule of engagements were announced, some joint with Charles and Camilla and others with HM and Philip.
Many people felt let down by Kate because the PR was so OTT crazy in her favour during those 6months and it was such a slap in the face to realise what a bunch of bollocks it all was and the public had been gad.
I think 5yrs later, most people have calibrated their expectations and aren’t so easily offended by her anymore because they see that she is nothing. If not for the titles, does she exist at all or is this a jefi mind trick?
Thanks for breaking this down. I didn’t realize there was such a whitewash. Smdh.
The whitewashing was epic.
It was fascinating to watch it happen in real time because there was 8yrs of material in the public domain to refute or erase.
And some of the whitewashing was unwittingly debunked by the Middletons themselves eg the lie that she worked for her parents company.
Pippa gave an interview to the Sunday times in 2010 in which she was asked directly what Kate did at Party Pieces.
Pippa couldn’t answer the question. Not that she wouldn’t answer, she couldn’t. She tried several times to answer the question, wasn’t being evasive nor did she pull ‘no comment’. She simply couldn’t say what Kate did at party pieces. Which was still a mom n’pop shop of 15-ish employees out of the barn in the grounds of the Middleton home.
Meanwhile Pippa worked 2 days a week at Party Pieces!!!
I remember the whitewashing well. What I found funny was that all the old articles on “waity katie” were still online and easily retrieved by googling Kate Middleton.
I always learn so much when you comment. Thank you for sharing all this! Thank you KMR for this post as well!
I think we all feel let down by Kate! For many reasons
Excellent review and spot on about HM and Malta. I bought that along with everyone until I looked twice. At this point, I wonder if anyone cares anymore for Kate to keep up the pretense of “working.” There are a few positive moments but I don’t think the taxpayers get the bang for their buck. She’s cheaper to leave shopping with only two RPO compared to expense of traveling to locations via helicopter etc, LIW and RPOs, police clearing areas and providing protection for a 30 min visit where she says nothing of interest while using the same words in each sentence, hopefully without the faces thrown in. Her attitude is more “doing what I have to” which is exactly like Will, in order to get the gravy.
Thank you for the details. So the Cambridges are mostly PR spin. Maybe KP should stand for “Keeping up Pretenses”.
Great comment, Herazeus! Gave me a lot of context.
Those pap shots of her at the supermarket with that huge ring are amazing.
Thank you for all of that! Granted I was in the states so it wasn’t on my news rack every day but I just learned so much.
Herazeus, I am so glad you are here!
They also whitewashed away the four staff they had at the house in Wales, including cook and housekeeper. Didn’t fit into the happy homemaker image.
Also washed out her 3X a week trips to the hairdresser in London. Even after the wedding, there was proof they didn’t spend much time living together.
Thanks for the recap KMR. It is amazing how differently I used to feel about these 2. They looked like such the beautiful, loving couple that would reenergize the monarchy. Kate even seemed charming and shy, little did we know, she just can’t really articulate. I can’t believe how different things were and how hopeful I was.
Btw, KMR, thanks for the information about the engagement announcement. I had no idea William only told his staff/family 2 hours ahead of time. I wish I could say I was surprised, but I am not. He really does want to control everything and everyone. He seems like he would be the spoiled, bratty child/adult at family get-togethers that everyone walks on eggshells around.
It was clearly a targeted thing on William’s part, to not let anyone know until 2 hours ahead of time. Like, he had weeks to inform them, but he chose not to. He chose not to include his family in his life decisions, and he chose to not give a crap whether the courtiers could get everything together in time to announce with only 2 hours notice. He chose to be rude.
robert johnson (sp) said at the time he didn’t tell anybody for leaks. He obv. can trust the middletons because it didn’t leak. He clearly doesn’t trust the people who work with his family because if he told his family they would have told their staff and bam you have a leak.
I don’t know why you have to make a problem about every single thing and search for a reason behind it when it’s a simple reason for him : fear of getting out before he wants it out.
I understand that he didn’t want the news to leak, but I disagree that I’m “making problems where there are none”. To me, it is a glaring problem if he cannot trust his own family. I don’t trust my family as far as I can throw them and I consider us highly dysfunctional. If William asked his family not to tell anyone the news, including their staff, then they should honor his request and he should trust them to honor his request. If they cannot and he cannot trust them to, then, yeah, that’s a problem. There is dysfunction there in that family.
Don’t feed the troll!
I doubt the Queen would have the DM on speed dial like Carole.
nob: if Willie boy doesnt like or trust his family, then he should break off from them and earn his own way and feed hs wife and kids with his own earnings. But no, he wants to live off of his family’s status and have his useless, hanger-on wife live off of his father’s money too. Do you really think that Kate would’ve given the horse-face, whiny, William a second glance if he was not a Prince and heir to the Kingdom?
I’m probably more on the sugary side than a lot of people here, so sometimes I bristle a little too, but it seems very odd to me that he wouldnt tell his family. I can understand asking to wait to tell the courtiers until a bit before but really, that morning? I’ve been on the PR end for an organization that seems minimal in comparison and even that would have seemed impossible on my end.
You think it is in order that he did not inform the monarch, whose permission he requires???
I find it unbelievable that there is even a suggestion that he couldn’t trust the Queen or Charles. The Queen is privy to the highest state and government secrets, she is head of the Church and Charles is her heir! She is also his Grandmother and Charles is his Father. If you cannot trust these two individuals ‘as family’ then their very positions should make them above question. I doubt very much that, had he told them in private, they would have breathed a word. I feel sorry for the Queen and Charles – what an insult to them from William, both personally and professionally.
Oh and you are so right KMR, that comment Kate made about what she loves about William says so much about her. Her answer was self-centered and only about how he made her feel. There was nothing there about the traits she loves in him as a person. I had not heard that comment before, especially since she is hard to understand, but hindsight is everything. She was very self-centered then, we just didn’t realize it. 🙁
I will say though, I still love that dress. Kate looked so pretty at the engagement announcement.
I listened to the interview back then and was very confused by her reply. I remember saying out loud “but what do you love about him?”. As I’m a Scandinavian woman I was also very confused by Kate’s lack of career etc., so I wasn’t sure she’d re-energize and renew the monarchy in any way. I know many people shared my doubts, I actually watched the wedding with British friends who expressed the same concern.
I didn’t pay attention to the fact that her answer was self-centered (which it is), I just focused on the fact that the thing she liked most is that he takes care of her. That being taken care of is the most important thing to her. Because she can’t take care of herself.
I, too, still love that dress. Huge oversight on my part that I left it off my top favorites list.
It is an easy oversight KMR as there were a lot of dresses to try and remember. You can just say you have your top 25 favorites list and than this is her iconic dress so it’s in its own category ;).
Yes, this is her most iconic dress (even moreso than her wedding dress), so it gets it’s own category. 🙂
Speaking of being taken care of……it’s funny that during her first 18mths of engagements, and i include Canada here, every time a member of the public asked her what her new marriage was like, whether she was happy or what William was like as a hubby or what being in the royal family was like, she would always respond that she was being taken care of. Every.single.time.
Kids, adults, grannies alike were told that she was being taken care of.
And in the commemorative video of the Queen last year, she talks about being looked after by HM as well. I think Carole really did micro manage (dominate/smother )her children while they were growing up, and Kate was the weakest personality of the three so she just submitted to it. And now she expects it from every relationship in her life. I can’t think of any other reason why she would feel like it’s so important to be taken care of all the time, and is ok with it. Wouldn’t you want some independence and to make your own decisions…be your own person? It’s really sad and I hope she does not pass this on to her own daughter. I’m sure Carole thought she was doing what was best to give her kids the best life, in her opinion, but now look.
If her relationships are all about taking care of her, then who takes care of the kids? Thank goodness they have Nanny Maria.
And considering she made those statements last year about the Queen taking care of her, when she already has two kids, it really doesn’t seem like she matured as an adult at all.
Sometimes I wonder if Kate says this because she thinks it makes her sound loved and cherished.
I remember that too, and made me think she is really weak in character.
I wonder if that isn’t a direct reference to the fact that Diana wasn’t. Kate’s line is sure to keep her out of trouble with the royal family.
That’s what I thought when I first heard her say it. When things started to publicly disintegrate for the Wales’s Diana claimed (falsely) that she had been left to sink or swim on her own, that she wasn’t taken care of. Later, she also meant that she wasn’t cared for emotionally, that Charles was only capable of caring for Camilla. Either way, I thought that the palace would have approved of Kate’s comments in advance — maybe even encouraged them — to avoid future problems.
In fact, I wonder if that’s why Kate sounds so dim. I can easily imagine a courtier telling her before she goes on walkabout, “Oh, just make small talk. Ask people where they’re from. Thank them for the flowers. If anyone asks, tell them you’re well looked after.” And Kate stays on script.
I wonder if she still feels the same way now?
What I find funny is how she talks about the break up and how it consumed her and how she essentially learned from that yet as soon as there was a hint they were back together, she dropped the charity rowing thing!
Kate is the antithesis of an independent woman!
I don’t know that I’d say self-centered. I think codependent in enriching his version of himself though, certainly. If she really was raised by her mother to mold herself in a man’s image then she certainly filled that out to a T.
“. . . codependent in enriching his version of himself though, certainly.”
Spot on, Em.
It is interesting she spends so much time emphasizing how he takes care of her, when we can see from photo and video evidence that he doesn’t. He ignores her most of the time, doesn’t take her arm to help her up stairs even when she’s pregnant and walking up icy steps, negative body language between them at engagements for years, etc.
As if she was already trying to counter the years of evidence to the contrary about his behavior. And playing up the idea that she needed to be infantilized, that she wasn’t capable of doing much of anything, so don’t stress precious out.
I agree with you Nota, but I wonder if this is not mutual. I don’t understand Kate, and I won’t pretend I do. But she is weird about allowing people to help her.
Remember when the Obamas came to tea? It was drizzling out and Obama is a gentleman. He wanted to-oh he wanted to- let her use his umbrella. It was drizzling! He wanted Michelle dry! And Kate too!
She refused. Preferred to walk in the drizzle. (Obama even tried to put the umbrella over her surreptitiously.)
Kate weird ;-/
I consider her to be self-centered and also hair-centric! My eyes have been opened with the PR for their anniversary of engagement by hearing various clips of Kate talking back then. It’s very clear she has little vocabulary and cannot speak in sentences or make sense. Lots of hair flicking and throwing her head back. Another video I saw showed her removing some fluff from behind William’s ear and flicking it away during an interview!
But, William, not telling even Harry of the engagement/removing the ring from Royal safe is very amazing to me. He is very egotistical and selfish, it seems.
Is it true that there were many retakes when it came to the interview? I thought I read it somewhere but who knows what is true. She certainly doesn’t seem very articulate in the version aired in any case. Six years later she is just as bad.
Oh well, if Meghan is the one for Harry, it should be interesting when they do an interview.
In the links section at the end of my article, the last link is to an article Tom Bradby wrote in which he talks about what it was like to film with them. And yes, they did many takes to get the interview right.
PS. I’d really like to keep this article Meghan-free. I actually wrote this article well before the Meghan thing came out intending to post it on this day no matter what happened.
Watching her as she began to pop up in the media, she struck me as a smug social climber….
Look at all of William’s hair lol
Why did he have to talk to Kate’s dad? Is this the 19th century?
It seems so foreign to me, but I guess there are people out there who want that. But then again having a man “pop the question” and buy the ring himself without my input is also something I would be very unhappy with, but there are many women who want that. So, eh. I’ll do me; they can do them.
It’s inexplicably still seen as romantic. Like having your father walk you down the aisle and give you away to your husband.
A tradition rooted in women being men’s property yet still carried on in this post-feminist world!!!
I definitely think that is old-school traditional thinking. But then again, I recall during the marriage ceremony, she handed her hand to her father to give to the minister proceding. Odd traditions from a couple that already lived together, but I guess formality and tradition was key. My boyfriend and I live together and we have discussed marriage and the ring design together. I also don’t expct him to ask my parents for permission lol. I was raised in a feminist household lol.
I was raised in a normal American household and have attended countless Church weddings and was stunned when she handed up her hand. I stopped watching. It told me everything I needed to know about what this was.
Yes I was shocked about that part. I haven’t seen that at ceremonies in the states.
Well, I think it is romantic. I know several guys who asked not for permission but for the blessing of their future father in law before proposing to their girlfriend. So yeah, I know that feminists hate this and think it is obsolete, but I love traditions (jzst like the father walking the bride down the aisle in church, lifting her veil,…) and I wish we would not ignore so many lovely and romantic traditions nowadays.
It is a very nice gesture and gives the father of the bride to be the chance to approve of her future husband and sort of welcome him into the family.
As a woman, who has freedom of choice, it’s mindboggling that you would disparage the fight that resulted in your freedom. A fight where women had to create legislation that allowed them to have legal rights to themselves.
Then you take a ‘tradition’ that is one of the purest demonstrations of a woman’s lack of agency or legal rights and call it romantic.
I’m sure you don’t weep when you read about forced marriages in this modern age. Afterall, it’s romantic and tradition. And anyone who objects is being a ‘feminist’.
Herazeus I agree, but men helped pass the legislation that recognized women’s rights. It’s important to leave the anger in the past so we can reason and act going forward rather than react when injustices present themselves.
I know men passed legislation, but only because women forced them to.
It’s on a parr with civil rights. If black people hadn’t forced the issue, would the legislation have happened naturally?
It was normal and enforced by one side and the people without rights stood up and demanded rights on a parr with everyone else.
We don’t keep or tolerate micro aggressions in civil rights no matter how cute you might tjink they are, so why do people tolerate patriachal micro aggressions.
Saying no to micro aggressions doesn’t mean holding onto anger. One is simply rejecting the status quo that lords it over one part of society.
I’m not saying marriage is wrong or people shouldn’t enjoy the process, but we should always be aware that having your father walk you down the aisle followed by his handing your hand officially to your husband is re-enacting a piece of theatre that tells society that you are being handed to your husband like a piece of property.
This is seen as so normal that when women choose their mothers to re-enact the same ceremony, it’s seen as a brave / unusual choice.
I remember there were rumblings when the King of Sweden walked his daughters down the aisle, as that is not usual in Sweden.
One tradition I do like is the custom in Jewish weddings when both sets of parents walk their respective children down the aisle. To me that indicates a blending of two families.
Sorry Herazeus but I don’t agree with you that women forced all men. Men like Lucy’s Stone’s husband, Henry Brown Blackwell were passionate supporters of women’s suffrage. James Mott, Max Eastman, and numerous, unnamed others who were sons, brothers, husbands, fathers supported women having a equal, legal vote. My great-uncle Thomas Benson marched for women’s rights in D.C.–we have documentation and his diary. Considering my mother’s family was run by a tough matriarch after an early paternal death, I’m not surprised.
This is just like the Civil Rights movement and it bothers me. Many in America believe that only African Americans marched, but there were numerous Caucasians and others who marched in favor of full and equal legal treatment. It’s the same with women’s rights–where a segment of men move beyond one manner of thought and expression of power to see a bigger picture and it comes home to them because these are people and not a demographic. To not recognize that encourages radicalism today where people become so angry when nothing they do is good enough, the pendulum swings backward. Media and other sources have people fearful that white men are always wanting to oppress people and that everyone else needs to actively resist them. That’s simply not true. There will always be PEOPLE who want power for power’s sake, and they are the ones, whatever the gender, race or creed, that humankind must protect themselves of. The idea that only people in a similar group can care passionately, even risking everything, is not supported by history.
Also, about micro aggressions–they are happening all over the world and they need to be addressed better. This is another reason why I don’t like getting bogged down in arguing about America’s past–we lose today’s power to speak in a united voice that sex trafficking (which Cam just spoke about and was great how she highlights), child brides, and other important issues.
I want to say too that George Washington famously stopped being friends with George Mason over the latter’s stand against slavery, and his refusal to sign the Constitution (becoming the Forgotten Founder in the process). People hate on GM for not freeing his slaves, calling him a hypocrite, but where would they go if he had? They would have been bought by who knows who and potentially mistreated or killed. Still no excuse but that’s reality! Reality sucks and is not fair. First thing everyone should learn is “life is not going to be fair!”
GM and others are vilified by today’s educational wonks as hypocritical so&so’s, when what would we do if we lived then? Free them and pay for passage back to Africa where they could have been captured and sold again? Definitely fight harder to get equality here, but they didn’t have the numbers. It takes time for people to see others as a fellow human being.
I’m with you on fighting the good fight, but I don’t look at the past with anger and hate–and I could. I was raised in poverty and abuse while DSS pointedly ignored my situation and famously said while I sat outside their opened door (my ninth visit, this time with a black eye etc) that “it didn’t really matter if they did something now because in another year [I was 15 then] I’d be in the system pregnant and then I could get programs.” Well, hells bells, that’s equality. If we want to live in anger, I save mine for government programs in today’s world who don’t give a damn about the people they are supposed to be helping.
All my best.
feminism isn’t just about equal rights with men. It’s also a Movement to stop judging other women for their decision. Which is what you’re doing. You do you. I do me. You’re arguing against what you just said, freedom of choice.
Sunny, i’m not belittling the people who worked together to make progress work. Every movement needs allies from the group they are trying to emacipate themselves from, but it always starts with the oppressed group educating their potential allies. It’s rarely a sponteneous understanding to action.
I’m simplifying my examples because Feminism and other human rights movements are multi-dimensional and have worked at different pace and in different ways all over the world plus there are so many levels of micro-aggressions and or blatant discrimination that we could be here all day and only touch upon 5% of it in any particular movement.
I’m talking about one very specific micro-aggression and using a larger example to show that we don’t accept micro-aggressions in that example because we understand that to do so is a slippery slope backwards.
It’s a pity you think that to point out someone supporting a micro-aggression is holding onto anger and hatred.
Would you say that Martin Luther King was angry and full of hate for simply pointing out the discrimination? Or Ghandhi for insisting upon India’s self rule?
I’m not comparing myself to MLK or Ghandhi, just saying refusal to accept status quo doesn’t automatically make one angry and full of hate.
Dismissing my argument as coming from a place of anger or hate is exactly the type of argument used against those early fighters. Hysterics if they were women. Man haters and femnazis in modern times. It’s easier to dismiss a person this way than to listen to what they have to say.
We as a society have come such a long way by rejecting tradition and status quo no matter how cute and romantic those things are thought to be. It has made us a better society. And if we forget, we only have to look at countries like Afghanistan to see how badly wrong it go. And this is a country that gave the women the vote in 1919. A modern country until 1979. It’s now following traditions from the 13th century plus a few newly made up ones.
Further to my point about men giving us our agency, 100yrs ago, most of what women are doing today was impossible because it was traditional for them not to do it.
Men held the status quo, so it was men who had to craft the legislation that gave women that agency. It’s an inescapable fact.
Further, men later joining the fight on the side of women shows that progress had been made.
Yet, even with the crafting of legislation, it wasn’t a one time done deal. Every single thing has needed to be challenged. From women acquiring legal right to their own children, women not being forced to marry as their fathers demanded or instructed to equal pay.
You would think all of this was a no brainer when women finally were given the vote 100yrs ago, but apparently not.
It’s ergregious for a woman to re-enact being given away like property per tradition in the same way it’s ergregious for someone to be surprised when they meet an educated, well presented black person per societal prejudice or assume that transgender people will abuse children if they use same sex toilets. These are all traditionally held micro-aggressions.
My parents didn’t like my boyfriend when we first met. They warned me away from him and worried (loudly) about how he would ruin my life. I didn’t want to have to chose (emotionally, no financial strings) between them so we dated for nearly four years, even though we were certain that we wanted to marry before the end of the first one. After four years of not ruining my life, my bf asked my parents for their blessing. They were finally happy to give it, and welcomed him into the family. We chose the engagement ring together, but he got down on one knee to propose — I don’t know why, movies, I guess — and I asked my father to escort me down the aisle because he was important to me. That was over 26 years ago. My parents have since died, but they came to genuinely like and respect my husband, and to respect me for my choice.
You’re right to place a high value on women’s rights and to value the reality of equality over a “romantic” notion of giving away the bride and old ideas of ownership and servility. But weddings can be a time when people want tradition in their lives without paying allegiance to outmoded social mores.
I agree. While I don’t find these things romantic, I can understand how tradition may appeal emotionally to some people. In the end it’s all about being able to choose.
I still get riled up over the out dated tradition that a bride’s family is expected to pay the bulk of the wedding cost!! I think that is absurd. If you’re adult enough to to get married then you should be old enough to pay for wedding your self!!
My mom and I got into arguments over her paying for everything when my sister and BIL both had graduate degrees and still wanted my mom to pay for everything!! Crazy. I love my sister dearly but she went some what crazy during the wedding!
I told my mother if I ever get married I’m eloping!
You should your mother to give you the equal amount to what she paid for your sister’s wedding, with interest. Whether you get married or not.
I’m not going to push this issue because I doubt KMR would appreciate a comment war on the subject of feminism and wedding traditions, so I’ll just leave it at this –
I deeply disagree with you but hope you have a nice day.
I know that everyone feels differently about it. I love and honour and uphold these traditions, probably because I am very close with my family/parents. But I understand that if you do not have a good relationship with your father, you would not want him to give you away at the altar/lift your veil/etc. Live and let live, people. For many people, it is a lovely tradition. Feminists, not everything is ‘sexist’. I do not criticize the way other people celebrate their weddings, so please, let’s not criticoze these old traditions. Many people want to continue them out of nostalgia and because they are v close to their family, fo not make everything about feminism (and yes, I am a successful, well-educated and independent woman).
Seriously, these old traditions need to be criticized.
How do you think progress is made if these traditions aren’t criticised?
Every single progressive thing came about because we as a society criticised the traditional status quo.
No one is criticising weddings or saying you shouldn’t enjoy them with your family or asking you to dump your male relatives.
Just that one piece of theatre that takes away your agency as an independent woman.
Just like most women no longer say they will obey their husbands in the wedding vows. It doesn’t diminish the vows to skip the ‘obey’ part, but it definitely diminishes any woman she includes it.
And once again, i highlight countries where tjis tradition you wish to hold on results in forced marriages because those women have no rights.
How do we convince them of their right to their own agency when we re-enact the very taditions that keep them bound, in the name of romance and cuteness?
And i’m sorry to see that women are always the ones most resistant to progressive-ness in every single culture.
That’s why it’s such a big deal to educate the women first because they hold the line on all these traditional, cute customs that are actually garming them.
There is a big difference between discussing it with the bride’s family before making the proposal and asking permission.
I don’t think any of those things are romantic in the slightest. I don’t like my parents and my father was not present in my life growing up, so I don’t care what they think and I wouldn’t want them as part of the wedding. But that’s just me. I think we should all just do what we want in this regard. No choice is better than another.
🙂 That reminds me of my own proposal story. We spent more time on discussing if it’s necessary to ask my father for permission than on the deal-sealing kiss. 🙂
He popped the question by saying “Please, let me be your husband?” And I said “Yes.” …. Kiss……..a very long kiss….next to carrots and potatoes…..right in the middle of a supermarket. Most romantic moment in my whole life. No ring, no roses, no fancy “Marry me!” balloons, just pure, loving, happy emotion. We got married in a civil ceremony 2 weeks later and had a huge party with family and friends afterwards in a Tapas Bar. We are married since 27 years and we are still the best couple I know. Btw: In the end I allowed him to ask my father for permission because he really wanted to make sure that my father supports us. In fact he didn’t really ask for permission but TOLD him that he will marry his daughter…. my father was as happy with our decision as we are up to this day.
I was 19 years old at the time.
That is such a sweet and romantic story. A friend of mine has a similar one – she had had a really bad day and was sick and when her boyfriend came home, he kneeled down to her as she lay on the sofa feeling miserable and asked her to marry him. She had been so stressed out because they had had trouble conceiving – and then she did and was 6 months along when they married.
What a great story Greta! And to me what it’s really all about. My friend just spent $75 grand on her wedding which I think is obscene and not what it’s about at all.
75 grand??? Oh my goodness!!!! Our wedding cost us 2500 Deutschmark at the time (including dress, which was actually a trouser suit) and flowers. 2500DM = 1250€ = 1300$ (?)… well, it’s a long time ago…but still!
Tell me about it! She made her bridesmaids (me) pay for our own $400 dress and hair and makeup!! ? Someone might still be a wee bit bitter! =) I like your mindset! You and your guy made it what it as supposed to be about and not the event.
I find nowadays it’s about the wedding and not the marriage/couple. So stupid. $75k??!?! That’s excessive. That’s a down payment on a house around here! There’s a reason why boyfriend and I aren’t engaged. We took the money and got ourselves a home instead.
I bought my trouser suit in a second hand store in one of the fanciest streets of Munich for 50DM (Valentino, Zirka 1970), my bouquet cost 30DM and the rest we spent on the party. His suit didn’t cost a thing because he already had it (due to his job in Sales). We took a taxi from the “ceremony” to the party venue (15DM, and the driver (Turkish) invited us). How much can a wedding be???
People’s opinions on wedding traditions vary as we are all different and each of us has a different family situation.
I found my engagement months and my wedding day to be a time when I wanted the closeness and love of our families surrounding us. As time has moved on, I still cherish family time together. It means so much to me to have my parents, siblings and other relatives around. My hssband’s, too.
I guess all those wedding tradtiions — the father walking his daughter down the aise, the giving his daughter in marriage, resonated deeply with me because I am so close to my family. I don’t look at these things as sexist, even if they started out in that vein. But, that’s me. Others, apparently, feel differently. Vive la difference!
Awww, Greta, that is a very romantic story!
I love that so much! My husband psyched himself out so much trying to plan the perfect proposal that he got totally tongue tied! Though, he did hide the ring in a cleaned-out tub of our favorite Ben & Jerry’s. It makes it even more fun to eat it now.
This isn’t a political issue. It’s a human rights issue.
Normalising a micro-aggression isn’t helpful to humans as a species.
Most of what we call tradition, and i include the royal family traditions here, are simply reinforcing status quo.
What’s one of the campaigns at the moment?
Girls not brides or children not brides?
My husband asked my dad, my stepmom, AND my mom. Then at our wedding, all three of them gave me away because they were all three involved in raising me. 🙂 Well, my stepmom didn’t do much because she was bawling (we’re really close).
I’m fine with it. It’s a respect thing to me, but I know it’s probably a feather-ruffling thing to our generation.
Kate looked really beautiful for their announcement. The dress fit her like a glove and that color!
Wow, I think I am the only one who disliked the dress! I did not like it and was angry back then that she chose to mimic the color that Diana wore during her announced engagement. Fast forward and look at all the ways she still has chosen to mimic Diana’s looks.
I will say that they not only looked so young in the photos, but so happy. She, more so than him, I can add. Something is not right in Cambridge Land, for they have aged so rapidly and look angry and sad so often.
It is most telling that Kate spoke of how important it was to her that William took care of her. In healthy marriages/relationships, I think each party looks out for the other, but a sense of independence is important, too. Carole really did a number on Kate. She probably tried on the other two, as well, but Kate seems to have the personality needed to give her life over to some one else.
She did seem very happy in the photos. A dream finally came true for her. It’s sad to think that the dream is probably bordering often on nightmarish now. If one looks at photos of other Royal couples, you do see more happiness and a true loving bond. William and Kate are not just rigid when appearing in public, they just don’t seem happy. That’s sad. I think the world wanted them to have a great marriage. I think W and K just let their anger about the media and their resentments of having their privacy invaded make them look and feel bitter They have two great children. I hope they have some sense of happiness in the privacy of their home, but to me, there seems to be so much tension.
You’re not alone, I really dislike this dress! I think she looked beautiful though, she was glowing with happiness.
I didn’t care for that dress either. Not only was she copying Diana by wearing blue on the day of her engagement announcement, it looked cheap to me. As in polyester cheap. Heck, the hem isn’t even straight!
But yeah, William was obnoxious not to at least talked to his father beforehand. What an ass.
That hem bugs me too! And I want to ask if it was shortened as well?
Oh, I thought the color of the dress was gorgeous, but the dress itself, didn’t strike me as anything special. The fact that she borrowed blue from the Diana/Charles engagement announcement was another way of Kate showing she is not her own person. She continues to borrow ideas for her wardrobe from Diana. She rarely makes any statements of her own, imo.
I also thought the hem was terrible and the material looked cheap. The color, however, is what really stood out.
I had forgotten about the happiness that Kate projected on that day and she and William really have aged, haven’t they? Kate seemed radiant then. Even more so than on her wedding day! She waited so long for her prize and I guess she didn’t realize what she was really headed for. She really was flaunting the ring, too. In the photo where she and William enter the room, her left hand is placed quite strategically above her abdomen, and there’s Big Blue! I thought that was rather tasteless. I mean, you had to know the photographers would ask for a photo and she’d be showing off her ring at that time. She just was flaunting it then and still does. I know she was happy and that newly engaged women have a way of using their left hands more once they have a ring, but I think I expected more from the future Duchess. Or, I am I being too hard on her?
But he doesn’t take care of her, as shown in his treatment of her over the years. She was always expendable, to be called upon or dismissed at a whim.
Her overheard comments about wanting to be like the Queen Mum, pampered and never heard? She doesn’t want to work, never has, never will. She wants everyone else to support her. (And she clearly knew nothing about that marshmallow made on a steel frame).
I’m sure playing the victim helps her out, in her quest to never work and just be supported financially by someone else. And playing the Diana card regarding the press is a favorite game they share. She isn’t weak, IMO, she’s the hard, determined woman his friends and the staff rumors say she is.
I didn’t like the dress, I thought the hem looked wrong. The fabric looked cheap even though it was expensive. Pippa wore a red version not long after. Otherwise, Kate did look pretty, and gloriously happy!
I really think all this “taking care” of little me that she mentions both of Will and the Queen is a pose to seem needy. The RF likes to dominate as is conditioned by position to expect to, so she pleases them while she bides her time. She gave a speech at St. Andrews while attending where she’s much more articulate and forceful.
Interesting to see Will’s willfulness and combative nature with the press right from the start along with Kate’s expensive St. Andrews education shown off by her complete lack of forming an intelligent answer to a basic question. They must be very proud. Beyond sad that her 20 year old MIL with no secondary education and who consistently downed herself was capable of giving a speech that could be heard and understood. It says a lit about when someone wants to try.
That last picture is worth a million words and should be in the portrait gallery.
Hi sunny, did you see the speech at st. Andrews somewhere? I’d be really curious to see her in a speech where she is articulate and forceful., as it’s really hard to imagine. Thanks
It’s her 2012 speech to open a field (IT). My phone isn’t letting me copy and paste it here, but it’s on YouTube under Kate Middleton St Andrews school speech.
Lots of looking at notes and she has bangs that she is constantly head-flicking back (nervous gesture lime how she would twirl her hair?) but she’s clear. I think the efforts to out out-posh the posh accent has derailed her ability to speak.
I have an issue with KM’s drive to change her accent. KP pushed the narrative of how her normalness was one of Kate’s biggest assets, and yet Kate seems hellbent on transforming herself. I think the public would have embraced her as a regular person if she’d ever been one, but Kate has always seemingly playing roles to social climb the composite of Everest, and she did it. Now they have to live with “take what you want and pay for it.”
The wedding was in 2011; they both graduated years before she made that speech…
I know that, my point was that a year into the marriage she could make a decent speech and now she’s barely able to be understood and KP continually excuses her weak abilities and lack of speeches as “fear of public speaking” when the video disproves that. The real truth is Kate has made enough foolish comments that she gets a free pass from KP so she doesn’t embarrass them. It’s a smart move; she gets to do less and still enjoy the gravy for failing.
+1 To all of that. I saw the speech a couple of years ago and thought, “If you weren’t trying so hard to change your accent you might have a fighting chance at public speaking.” I really wish she could give herself a break but she’s in too deep now.
Oh thanks Sunny, I didn’t know you were talking about her primary school and a recent speech. I thought you were talking about a speech given while she was attending University as a student. Sadly, I don’t think the field speech is any different from any of her other speeches. I agree her fake accent makes it hard for her, but I just generally think she isn’t good at giving speeches. I don’t see anything forceful about that speech, but I am glad you do. It was one of her better speeches, but that isn’t saying much.
Wow…..what a well written post which pointed out several things I didn’t know about even as much as I am on several blogs and been reading mostly since they got married.
They look so young in their announcement engagement photo …my favorite photo is their other official engagement photo. And oh yes I love this blue dress and one of my favorites too.
I had never seen that photo of Kate looking at her ring. I am so hoping it is not true that William discussed nothing with his own brother until 2 hours before the giant audience announcement (that bursts the closeness bubble I thought William and Harry have).
As a Yank I’m sorta curious about something. In Britain are W&K mentioned much in everyday life? Obviously they’re featured in magazines. It’s to be expected. Then there are forums like this where opinionated gals delve more deeply. But do you know of, say, any young girls, teens or tweens, who look up to Kate? Do people have much of an opinion, one way or another? Are they curious as to what the couple are up to at any given time? Is there a sense of collective pride in them and now their family? Popularity is key to the monarchy’s survival. Diana said, “It’s the man on the street I care about.” And people believed her. They felt it. That’s what it’s all about.
Ines, I have British friends and as far as I know nobody of them cares about William and Kate much. Neither do their families or friends. Some are for abolishing monarchy, which tells a lot of course, so you could get a completely different answer from someone else.
It’s not in the press everyday, but it’s in the background of everyone’s life though they are mostly apathetic to it yet if you ask them a direct question, everyone does have an opinion which shows they are not as apathetic as they seem to be.
With regards abolishing the monarchy, it’s not high on the to-do list so people again don’t bother out of apathy and getting on with their own lives.
It’s only when there is some sort of very public event do you get a picture of feeling for the monarchy. The same people expressing apathy in daily life will be the same people attending the parades and celebrations.
And despite opinion polls, most people have similar views as the internet with regards individual royals even if they don’t attract lots of mainstream media ie Anne is grumpy, but works very hard. Sophie has overhauled her image and works hard, Andrew and Fergie are problematic, ditto their kids who seem to be on permanent holiday, Queen is awesome, ditto Philip who is also racist, Harry is a fantastis lad and William and Kate are boring and workshy. And everyone forgets Edward completely except that he dropped out of the military thus his medals are faker than fake.
Public opinion seems to be that our system of monarchy works, and the alternative seems to be President Blair (name any PM), and no one wants that.
I also think that the recent presidential race in the US along with the amount of money spent on it, puts off even fairly ardent republicans. At the moment I think Britain has greater things to worry about and the monarchy is no worse and no more expensive then any alternative.
We don’t pay for the election and the campaigns though. That’s private money. We used to publicly finance to make it far and prevent the disasters of recent campaigns but the candidates always had the choice to reject the money and fund raise privately; taking any of the public money limits you in the amount you can privately fund raise. There are countless, countless faults to the system, don’t get me wrong. But taxpayer dollars do not go to candidates directly. Secret Service, etc., yeah.
I appreciate it is private money but a quick google search states that the latest race cost US$2.6billion. My point was that that money could be so much better spent! And I think all political commentators around the world agree that this last race was vicious and devisive. In the UK our elections are far from perfect but they are short – 6 weeks- and the amount of money allowed to be spent is limited.
I think while there is a growing feeling that we don’t get good value out of the younger royals, there is little appetite for change because we cannot see a system that is clearly better. That was the point I was trying to make.
Oh to have a six week election with limited funds! I am in California and the election was awful. AWFUL. it started almost two years ago with everyone in the Nation wanting to be President. Then it just got ridiculous on all sides and was a media blitz. I pondered this week the new relationships that won’t be forged in the upcoming four years. I just don’t see the Royal family taking to the Trumps as they did to the Obamas.
Thanks for the replies. It’s appreciated. It’s the thought of the head of state’s entire family – children and spouses, grandchildren and spouses, assorted first cousins – receiving taxpayer funds that confounds me. Who pays for everyone’s transportation, nannies, housekeepers, cooks, landscapers, plumbers, electricians, food, clothing, jewelry, furnishings, entertaining, school tuitions? All the things for which everyone else busts their ass/arse their entire lives. The MILLIONS of pounds spent W&K’s Kensington apt. Andrew insisting on royal incomes and accommodations for his two pets. Diana’s divorce settlement (she asked for a frigging private jet!). I just don’t get it.
And of course mansions for everyone. Or so it seems.
As i was arguing upthread about micro-agressions, we keep these people because it’s tradition, cute and even romantic.
They maintain their place by doing good charity deeds which the state can’t fund or could fund and chooses not to. And we all accept it because it’s cute, traditional and romantic.
And in the meantime, we pay them an extimated £334M annually for the privilege of keeping them.
My sympathies. Believe me, as a kid I was enamored of them. But as I got older and had to find my own way in life, not getting any hand-outs, it p***es me off seeing truly unexceptional people getting a free ride off the backs of others.
Methinks you are not getting your money’s worth.
I’m a secondary school teacher. The students talk about the Queen – generally love her – and sometimes Harry. Kate doesn’t seem to interest teenage girls that I know of
My older relatives are very interested and often want to chat about them.
Thanks Bea. Back in the day a lot of women and girls identified with Diana. Both as a young bride, then also thru her personal travails. There was a remarkable affinity. With Kate it’s different. This snippet I found on republic.org.uk puts it in perspective:
Yet British women – so polls tell us – don’t actually want to be Kate. A staggering 89% of women have no interest in being Kate, even for a single day. So – according to one commentator – the royal PR machine creates the illusion of a woman to whom the British public no longer attach themselves emotionally. They are not psychologically invested in her life; they do not project their own identities onto her; she is not a repository for the nation’s sense of itself, nor of its beliefs.
Does that sound on the mark?
And that is a major problem for the royal family’s future.
The public have to be emotionally invested to keep it.
As much as people say they dislike Charles and Camilla, they remain invested in them albight in a negative way.
William had that emotional investment until he married Kate. These past 5 yrs have seen that investment drain away. Meanwhile Harry’s investment gas skyrocketed.
Who would have guessed it six years ago? I thought W had inherited his mother’s heart and empathy for others. I thought it was sweet that he married his college sweetheart, who seemed like a nice middle-class girl. They had great potential. But they remained spoiled, lazy rich kids, catered to their whole lives. Who knew that Kate was such an airhead?
Hi all! Sorry for the brief sabbatical. I’ve been working, looking at apartments/townhouses, working my keester off, and, truth be told, I had a mini breakdown (over the apartment looking pressures that have been placed upon me plus some other issues going on) but I talked it over with my dad during the Veterans Day weekend and that helped me a lot. Plus, the stuff about Harry’s GF was starting to be a bit much for me.
Wow! What a difference six years makes! Kate looks radiant and well and William had hair (had to go there ?) and had a genuine smile (rather than his usual teeth baring).
I knew about the two hours before telling the world announcement (which was kinda mean, IMO) but I didn’t know about the “what does Kate love about William?” auote. That spoke volumes to me but in a different way. It showed me how disfunctional their relationship is and how much she depends on him (which is a lot, to the point where, IMO, it’s unhealthy).
I watched the engagement interview and I remember how she’d look over at him seeking his approval, as if she were asking, “did I answer that right?”
This was fun post and I’m sure it’s going to show up on my “on this day” feature on Facebook.
P. S. KMR, thoughts on the four finalists on DWTS? I’m going going back and forth between Laurie/Val & James/Sharna for the win! Laurie is adorable as anything BUT James’s comeback story is amazing and Sharna is a popular and well-liked pro.
Sending positive thoughts your way, Kimothy!
Sending you best wishes Kimothy I have huge respect for all you deal with in your life and still manage to be positive.
Rhiannon & Birdy,
Thanks ladies!! (((GROUP HUG))) 😀
<3 I hope you're doing well Kimothy!
Kimothy, take it one day at a time. I know you are a survivor and don’t need advice, but I just wanted to send some support to you. May you find the best and happiest place to live and may each day be more relaxing and enjoyable. You are a true inspiration. Keep shining your positive light on this world.
Sending you a hug from New Zealand Kimothy!
You’ve still got a bit of time so you may find something come January once all the Thanksgiving and Christmas celebrations are out of the way?
I hope you’re doing well now, Kimothy.
I’m rooting for Laurie, but I won’t be upset if James wins. I think those two are the best, so I’ll be fine with either of them winning.
Hope everything works out for you Kimothy. Take good care of yourself and know we all care and are thinking about you.
That engagement interview is so full of lies that i can’t bare to watch it again.
The most glaring ones being the engagement story – stolen directly from Natalie Pinkham’s engagement story published a few days earlier and then re-published with revisions a few weeks later by the DM.
Second one is actually really funny. When asked about the break up, Kate discusses the 2007 break up per the interviewer question and William discusses an earlier pre-2007 break up. They talk at cross purposes, but since the public thought only 2007 was the big break up, they didn’t notice the different answers.
The disingenous answer about why he waited so long to propose. About wanting to reach career goals – when we know he barely attended and he was being given cliff notes version of any training.
Not to mention the fact that it was all out of her control in terms of career goals. She had to sit and wait. If he had taken another 5yrs, nought she could have done about it.
Also, making sure she knew what she was getting into…LOL. as if she there was a chance of turning him down.
All of this was obvious then. Subsequent years have only reinforced all of it.
Again, I love it when you comment. What is the real engagement story???
Nobody knows but I’ve read speculation it was the bone thrown at Kate during their trip to Birkhall, that’s when he really asked, but knowing William it was probably “oh, fine, let’s finally do this, here’s the ring.”
So they went to Kenya, but didn’t actually get engaged there. That was just William rewriting their history to suit? I guess it sounds better than “yes, well I’d strung her along for ages and she didn’t seem to be going anywhere, and it was all getting a bit shit or get off the pot, and since no one else was showing any interest, I figured let’s give the people a wedding! You’re welcome”
Sorry I don’t believe that very expensive ring was carried around in a backpack for days. Maybe, the replica, but not THE ring!
My question is wouldn’t he or some minion have to get the ring out of the vault/safe? I can’t see it being kept at his place.. And at that time why wouldn’t you tell the family?
I think the signs of what their true personalities were are in that interview but was overlooked.
It’s highly likely that they have family vaults/safes for each family. He only needs the vault to be opened if he can’t do it himself, and he doesn’t need permission from anyone since everything in the vault already belongs to the family.
Like a safe deposit box scenerio.
Herazeus, what’s your opinion on Harry? My gut doesn’t stop telling me that he will be king. Maybe I’m wrong and maybe it’s just wishful thinking. But I think that IF Great Britain remains a monarchy, then he would be the better choice. At least he knows and feels what’s it means and takes to support the people emotionally (what I think is the main task of the Royals)
I ask this because good friends of mine are Dutch and they are not royalist, but they LOVE Maxima, because “she is someone who serves as a good example and who is a wonderful role model”. IMHO Kate is only a role model for Stepford Wives Wannabes.
I like Harry as much as anyone, but the monarchy isn’t a popularity contest.
The first 3 people need to be removed from the line of succession before Harry gets his chance.
Now of course i always say never say never because we’ve had more spares getting the top job in the 1000yrs on British Royalty so anything could happen.
I saw Maxima (twice) when she was in New Zealand – oh my gosh! She’s gorgeous! I’m with the Dutch, their Queen is an amazing woman! 🙂
Cathy, how exciting! You saw Max twice! I can imagine that she is beautiful and probably was very gracious to everyone. Where did you see her? How close were you? I’m happy you got this opportunity. I bet the entire area was full of excitement. She is a rock star! Hope all is well. Thanks for sharing!!!
I was so excited. I read all abut their courtship in People magazine (don’t judge,lol) and couldn’t wait for the wedding. I had high hopes for them and wished Will every happiness. They both held so much hope and promise.
Fast forward to now. It’s as if they regressed from that moment. We see the lack of personality, work ethic and overall attitude. I really wanted the fairytale. I can look back and remember how sweet this interview was at the time. Now it’s telling. I still wish them the best, but starting to think this was their best.
At that moment I found Kate to be so pretty.and stylish. She seemed so happy.
Thanks for the memory, KMR.
It’s why we all found our way to KMR!
no judgement from me @Rhiannon 😉 I remember when Kate was new on the scene. And the care she took with her hats and outfits at the millions of Wedding parties they attended -made me think she would bring that ‘care’ to her Royal life. I was…not correct 🙂
She was still interviewing for the job. Of course she was better dressed.
Now she has the job, meh!!
Just like blowing off his friends.
Plus I imagine when she was single, Carole was behind the care and putting together/ renting of so many outfits, hence why she looked so much better.
Not throwing shade on this, because I know internet can’t show tone of voice, so my apologies if it comes off sounding like I’m doubting. I’m just curious.
Anyway, how do we know Will didn’t tell the palace until 2 hours before the press conference?
I didn’t watch the video, but I laughed at your quote of Kate’s answer to why she loves about Will. Seriously?! You ask me what I love about my boyfriend and I could tell you a million things! I guess you could also say they’re trying to be private. Looks like the whole “we want our privacy” thing was there right from the get go.
Yes, what source said that he only told his family/staff 2 hours b4 the announcement?
Several. I linked to them at the end of my article.
All the mainstream media. From the BBC to the Times to The Guardian to The Telegraph and all the usual tabloid sources.
It was part of the engagement reporting that same day and during the weeks immediately after the announcement.
BBC is the most establishment source. They never, ever go against the Palace which is why when they reported this story, it was clear it had been sanctioned by the palace.
For his 30th birthday story, the Telegraph included it in their 30 things you should know about William. (No 9 on the list)
I’m really puzzled by the fact that the Queen and Prince Charles were informed about the engagement 2 hours before it was announced to the public. Why??? The only reasonable explanation my little German brain can find is that Wills wanted to create facts and force the Queen and/or Prince Charles to agree.
There are constant rumors around that the Queen is not happy with Kate and her interpretation of the term “work ethic”. I wish I would have been a fly on the wall in Buckingham Palace.
I think we see further traits of Will’s insensitive behaviour in the fact that his father seems to see the grandchildren very little and there are yet to be any photos with him and the kids. That is completely off.
A great many of the articles about the engagement, and from November 16, 2010, said it.
Don’t the first 6 people in line need to have permission from HM to marry? I hate to say this, but it makes HM look like a pushover. That or she either truly likes Kate or she doesn’t care.
Will also might’ve known that his family really liked Kate and would be happy for them. I know my family would be happy and would “give permission” if my boyfriend proposed. Mind you, personally, I’m not one for asking for permission. If that makes any sense.
And say HM really did like Kate, then that’s just rude of Will to give the palace 2 hours time to prep for a press conference.
Yes, they need legal permission. William doing it this way forced HM’s hand. She could not say no.
We all know she was skeptical of Kate from the get-go. “This will all end in tears.”
What Ellie said.
You gave to understand the nedia campaign that went into getting this engagement in the first place.
After 2007 break and make up, the media campaign went into overdrive simultaneaosly calling Kate the perfect princess material and William a cad for making her wait so long.
The waity Katy articles started to take on a somewhat sinister tone because they all talked about Kate being frozen in time waiting for William who was cruel for forcing her to wait when he probably wasn’t going to propose.
No article talked about Kate getting on with her life or doing something else unlike pre-2007 breakup articles. They all pushed for a wedding as the only conclusion to this story.
The media also started running snobby, aristo, royals vs pluck, industrious middle class Middletons.
In the meantime, counter hints here and there that the family didn’t quite approve of Kate. The lack of a work ethic said to come from HM herself, lack of charitable endeavours etc.
James Whitaker, royal reporter extraordinaire contributed to a national radio programme and repeated frequently thereafter that Kate was completely unsuitable as a royal bride.
James Whitaker was thought to have the ear of HM and Philip, though we know he definitely had Charles’s ear.
Speculatively, William springing it on HM or Charles could have been done to preempt all of that.
And the Queen acquiencing could have been strategic in warding off a national crisis should she have refused permission a plucky, middle class woman joining the ranks of snobby, aristo royals.
In a way, Kate & co backed them all into a corner.
It would’ve been great to see HM refuse. Hind sight is great. I’m sure HM is probably wishing she had refused.
As much as I like HM, she has no back bone when it comes to her kids/grandkids!
She is the stereotypical ostrich with head in the sand when it comes to their shenanigans
God I miss James Whitaker. I wonder what he’d say/think now, with a wedding and two children in the pictures. I wonder what his thoughts would be of William-as-a-husband-and-father.
Also, would Charles still have to go to the press to be able to see his grandkids if he had James’s ear? I too think it’s sad that (supposedly) rarely gets to spend any quality time with George and Charlotte. I bet he would be a beaming and proud grandpa! Pushing them on a swing and showing them his garden and tree house! (Doesn’t he have a tree house at Highgrove and didn’t he get it spruced up for George?)
Herazus or Kimothy or someone else who knows more history than I do: do you think it had anything to do with the generation once removed ie Margaret. That a) the Queen capitulated more easily with this generation or b) that William didn’t want her to have a chance to refuse?
Wow! I’m flattered that you place me in the same category as Herazus (royal historian buff)!
I personally feel it’s a combination but more towards A. When Margaret wanted to marry, HM was very early in her reign and it had only been 16/17 years since David/Edward abdicated. The public still very-much recalled how Bertie/George had to step up to the plate and many believe it is one of the reasons why he died so young.
HM’s advisors were afraid that if Margaret married a divorcee it would reflect poorly since she (HM) was the head of the Church of England. Of course, we all now know what happened to Margaret’s marriage to Anthony. Would she have been happier with Peter? Who knows!
To add on top of it, HM’s own son (Charles) was also unable to marry the woman he loved and we all know what happened.
As for part B, William totally threw that last minute “oh, BTW, I’m engaged to Kate and about to tell the world” curveball! I think he did it so that granny could not say no and to simply be a jerk to his whole family. (Though I truly don’t see any love between William and Kate. I think he married her because he had to since they’d been together for so long but that’s another story/opinion for another day.)
Sorry if all of that is a bit wordy! I know what I want to say but, for whatever reason, my brain is currently unable to let me speak/type coherently. 😉
Yes, HM may not have a backbone when it comes to her grandkids, but wasn’t she far more critical of Diana? And, wasn’t she shamed into being more caring in the immediate aftermath of Diana’s death? I think Tony Blair spoke out, did he not?
I think William gets away with so much because there is a tad of guilt that he and Harry suffered the early loss of their Mum and that the Royals remember they were not always so welcoming to Princess Di.
Oh My, Great day that one, I was very, very happy. It was when I started following Kate. I thought she was amazing and “perfect” to Royal Family. Five years later, DISAPPOINTMENT.
The “he takes care of me” is also pushing one of William’s buttons, as he wished to take care of his mother, thought his father and the whole royal family failed to do so.
She was glowing that day. Her hair was lovely, and I think her own. I loved her dress, too.
After i stopped shuddering at the reappearance of the ring of doom, i thought the same thing about ‘he takes care of me’ in the context of the relationship, the dynamics and she pushed those protector buttons in him.
I think in a relationship you take care of each other.
To take care of each other and to need a protector are different things. If I was asked that question about my husband “he protects me” would be part of my list, not the only answer.
I haven’t read the post yet, but, my gosh! In six years they’ve aged so much!
I know! I said KMR should have done a side by side of then and now!
The saying about marrying for money….,
I’d say that has held true for Kate and what’s so sad, with all that’s available to her she seems to go for the absolute worst available (hairstylist and stylist)
I was doing my volunteer work in the British Heart Foundation when I heard something vague on the radio. I thought really? at last William.
I found them both to be quite stilted during the interview. William said that he was calm but paddling like heck underneath. I would have thought a guy in love would be shouting it and her name from the rooftops or the sofa.
Kate never got over the break up. Breaking up in my book means moving on. Acceptance. Kate put herself out there partying to get Williams attention and William instead of ignoring it, was attracted to Kate all over again. They are not holding hands just arm in arm. I find that odd. I would want to touch my fiance. I realise they have to keep it discreet in public but Kate and William never kept out of the media. So why change I wonder. Of course Kate agreeing all the time made me feel a wave of nausea. However if they wanted children wouldn’t they have discussed it. Kate is a mother now but I see her loving Prince George more than anything. I do like the dress. Kate got that right. However there was no compliment from William on it. All these things just seem in hindsight really strange. When I like a guy I see the things I like and can name them and want to find out more and what I know about him. Thank you KMR, for the article.
That’s kind of unfair, IMO…the arm-in-arm pose was clearly to show the ring off for the cameras, and I’m sure he complimented her when he saw her.
They have their issues, but that’s reaching.
If it was to show the ring off then that is ok and I take it back. . It is a beautiful ring. I wouldn’t want to wear it personally.
Trying to think back to the early days. They got off to a pretty good start, didn’t they? More engaged and outgoing and enthusiastic in their duties than they are now. Seemed good with people. Kate didn’t grab her crotch as much. But it’s been so long maybe I don’t remember it as well as I thought.
Kate has changed so much and not to the better. She’s aged enormously. Of course, pregnancy, child care, constant lack of sleep are exhausting. Well, I have 4 children, last pregnancy in my early forties, full time job, no nanny, but I look the age she actually is. And no, it’s not only DNA. Kate looks really, really, really unhappy. Poor thing.
Greta, you’re Wonder Woman! Don’t know how you do it. Hat’s off.
The secret is my husband. He is the kindest, most warm hearted, most loving, funniest guy on the planet. Our family is in a good place emotionally and love and laughter are the best anti aging remedy ?
Makes you think that Kate, with all her material benefits, lacks the loving husband and family which you have.
I remember losing myself in coverage of the engagement. I was so caught up in the love story and had such high hopes for both of them. I wasn’t such an ardent royal watcher then, so I missed the scandals following the marriage and all of that, but the disappointment came on its own in time. I’ve since caught up in a lot and found that a lot of my initial questions have been answered. The British people got bamboozled.
What I always found weird is how he storms in there and she’s lagging behind. They’re not arm in arm, or holding hands, it’s Kate following William’s lead as always. How romantic.
That’s really weird. My husband and I or any other couple we know wouldn’t act like this in a moment like this.
Doesn’t she have to lag behind as consort?
(an insane rule, by the way)
I’ve seen Edward and Sophie walk side-by-side while holding hands.
Even if you have to walk behind (as a woman, by protocol), there is a way to show affection.
I think that it is only enforced for the monarch. Even then it’s pretty dumb.
I think that was more of a thing for the young Queen Elizabeth. In the fifties, there was a sense that people might more naturally ascribe authority to the taller, handsome young naval hero husband. When he held himself back by a pace or two, he’s clearly showing his support and his acceptance of her rightful majesty. That wouldn’t be necessary with Will and Kate. Ever. Not now, not with Will as monarch. Just never, ever.
He had to walk behind her. He wasn’t happy about it, especially back then. He didn’t do it to be supportive, he pitched a fit over it and over their children not having his last name. It’s something that he has warmed up to, apparently. It’s protocol.
Sorry I wasn’t clear. He did it to +appear+ supportive. I understand he felt gelded by the whole thing, esp. of his children not having his name. The grandkids do, though. Louise, for instance, is Louise Mountbatten-Windsor. Or Windsor-Mountbatten. I forget.
Thanks for the recap KMR, I didn’t really follow them at them time (made fun of my BIL for watching the wedding) so it’s interesting to see this, especially with hindsight!
Are you going to cover the Vietnam nam trip? I believe Vietnam is right behind China in ivory consumption. As hypercritical/half-hearted as William comes off on his conservation efforts, it could be interesting to see if he actually says anything meaningful.
I was bothered 6 years ago that he gave her Princess Diana’s ring. Seemed like a bad omen to me but I thought – no, they will rise above that. Over the years, I have hoped that some of Diana’s charisma and work ethic would transfer from the ring to the Duchess but it hasn’t happened. I do believe the Cambridge marriage is much stronger than then Wales marriage ever was and maybe in the next couple of years, they will step up admirably so far as their Royal Duties go.
They are both 34 years old. How many people of that age do you know who drastically alter their character? None unless some kind of serious life changing crisis forces them to. Will and Kate are not going to work harder unless forced. They don’t have to right now.
Holy crap. William only told everyone two hours before this conference? Not only is that disrespectful to his family, but to his Queen as his boss. The Queen should have known. It makes me feel like he doesn’t respect her. Never mind that it makes it seems like he isn’t as close to harry as the world believes he is.
Then again, in his interview he says he didn’t speak to Mike M until after he proposed to Kate because he realized Mike mi say no. He said that in a joking way, but maybe he thought if he told the Queen and gave her time to think she would say no?
I wasn’t closely royal watching six years ago, but boy their body language is stiff for two young people who are supposed to be in love and announcing their engagement. I don’t expect them to make out in front of the cameras, but what’s the big deal if a reporter asks if William got down on one knee? They could have answered that.
I did find Kate easier to understand in her couch interview, though. She wasn’t forcing her accent so much or whispering like she does now. She has gotten worse, not better, at speaking.
I don’t think a future King is suppose to kneel to anyone. THAT might be why that question is a problem. It raises her above him.
Then why not just say “no”? Why be squirrelly about it?
If William cannot separate himself as human from his silly role in this world? Even more hopeless than most of us think he is.
There is no reason why he couldn’t kneel down to ask her. But more likely, he caved to pressure from the Middleton family, there was no real proposal, he just blurted out, “Okay, fine, now I’ll marry you.”
I don’t believe that is the case, LadyBlueRibbon. When Camilla was asked if Charles got down on one knee she replied “of course.” She did it in a tongue in cheek way, so I don’t believe he really did, but if there was some protocol over Charles doing it she wouldn’t have said “of course”. I think it is simply because William is paranoid about anyone knowing anything about him and his wife.
Is it weird for me to admit that I can totally imagine Camilla giving that cheeky “of course” response? ‘Cause I can! I don’t think Charles went down on one knee (due to age) but I can imagine him being all romantic while proposing.
Kimothy, just for you…..
The question and her cheeky response is at 0.36secs in.
Thank you Herazeus!! They really do bring out the best in each other (Fred & Gladys 😉 ).
Thanks for this look back at the announcement of the engagement. I have to admit that I never really cared for Kate. Mostly due to the fact that I was such a Diana fan that I thought she could never be replaced in the hearts of the public. I found Kate boring back then, but when I look back at the photos of the announcement day, I see far more sparkle in her eyes and a really genuine smile. She looked happy! Really happy! I did not like the dress at all, though. Matching the color of the outfit Diana wore at her engagement announcement really irked me then. Wow, a really interesting sign of what was to come. I did not like the pointy boob look of the bodice ( a foreshadowing of her pointy boob wedding gown). I did not like the shine to the fabric. Ugly!
I found her remarks and the fumbling around rather annoying. Well, I guess I can cut her some slack for her lack of speaking to the media and in public then, but she hasn’t learned much, has she? I’m also shocked to learn about the passing of her grandfather (sad) and the fact that the passing held up the announcement, but I was really surprised that the Royals did not know. That really is puzzling.
I also remember being so horrified that she was given Diana’s ring. To me, that ring has such sadness attached to it. I would have taken it as a cocktail ring, but wanted my own engagement ring I guess Kate was just happy to have finally snagged her Prince. I believe Harry really wanted that ring, but if the brothers made such a pact — whoever married first, etc, so be it, but if Harry was not told, that is awful. I cannot imagine how he felt. Unless, of course, as he got older, it did not mean as much to him as it did when he was a child.
The Kate “um, um, ums” really are annoying. The stumbling through sentences hasn’t gotten better and that’s a shame. I so wish she would become more comfortable in her role and study more. Take some public speaking coaching. Learn how to make small talk. Appear more poised today. She really looked far more physically poised in those photos. What happened? I guess Happily Ever After has been tough. Marriage takes work, but under the microscope, wow! I think she needs a firm and kind person to help her through. The longer her nerves are frazzled, the harder it will be to appear more confident. But, apparently, she does not care what people think. So, she must be happy. Of course, she does not look that way, though.
Kate’s leaning on Will in these photos. She links her left arm through his right and so CANNOT do the now-infamous Cambridge crotch clutch. I guess her posture is actually better when she’s this close to him. Since then, they’ve never been closer than standing next to each other, tightly protecting their own space. Will once said that he’d never divorce, and I remember the word duty being mentioned several times in the engagement and wedding ceremony iteself. I haven’t seen much love between them, all we’ve got left is duty (and not a lot of that).
Jenny, the ring story irks me to no end. I don’t understand how can anyone consider it a romantic gesture after everything his parents went through. There are so many other ways he could have honored his mother’s memory and made her a part of the wedding day.
I know, I agree, Paula. The ring has so much sadness attached to it. Even for Harry to give to a woman he loves.
I wonder if Kate and William ever divorce, would she have to give back the ring? I mean, it has the Royal history — and all. Or, would she get to keep it? Not that a divorce is on the horizon, but I wonder.
Harry seems to be more sensible than his brother, so I doubt he would have given his fiancée this ring.
If W&K divorced, I gather William would want it back? Not only it is Royal history, it belonged to his mother.
Does anyone know when the ring was altered? The surrounding diamonds were given extra anchorage at some point to make them more secure. I think it was much prettier as Diana first had it, but it was always more of a cocktail ring, not practical for everyday wear. Diana was only 19/20 when she chose it.
Diana was very young when she chose it. She reached for the biggest ring (stone-wise) in the box that was presented to her to look through and choose a ring. Read that somewhere, but can’t recall which book.
I would hope that William would get the ring back! If they divorced, that is. Kate is forever letting the ring wear her.
I really had no idea that the ring was altered, Fifi. Very interesting.
Fifi: Ring was latered by Diana.
That said, she had a fake Sapphire replica made which had more spikes (?) All round the ring whilst the original ring had them only at the corners. She only added a few spikes to strengthen the central sapphire.
She wore both inter-changebly.
Kate’s ring above looks exactly like the replica. She may not be wearing the original.
This is the original ring with only corner spikes – 2 on each corner.
Diana wearing the fake replica ring. Notice it has spikes all the way round.
Compare Diana’s hand wearing the fake ring
Kate’s hand with a ring that is very similar to the fake ring
It remains a mystery as to weather Kate has the genuine ring or the replica or both worn interchangebly like Diana.
Not saying this is the case at all, just something my mind came up with as a theory: How sad would it be if William never gave Kate the real ring and only gave her the fake ring, but didn’t tell her. That’d be terribly mean.
The ring worn at the engagement press call and the one photographed on her hand at the wedding appear to be the altered version with all the extra prongs shown in Herazeus’ photo selection. So — did PW even know there was a replica? Did he assume the replica was the real deal and gave that to his wife-to-be?
Photo of the ring at the wedding:
Are there any photos of her wearing a ring with fewer prongs around the stone?
I’ve not seen every photo of Kate’s engagement ring, but I’ve seen a lot of them and I don’t recall ever seeing her ring with fewer prongs on it. I’ve only seen her wear the ring with more prongs on it.
William is clearly not close to his family. Is this really a surprise to anyone? The way they treated his mother was less than stellar, his father marries the woman that caused his mother a lot of misery, and it wasn’t until public outrage that Princess Diana got an state funeral.
If they were a average family, William would probably see his family about once a year on Christmas.
Then he should abdicate and not perpetuate a lie that his family is different from all others and therefore deserves to rule.
He lives in the house infamous for hosting Charles and Camilla’s secret trysts ( Anmer Hall) and he is besties with the family that sided publicly and privately with Charles and Camilla to extent that he hangs out with them, holidays with them, put one of their daughters in his wedding ( Grace) and made one brother George’s godfather (William Van Cutsem).
I think the public hold onto this feud when the families have long moved on.
+1 Herazeus. The idea that William has a problem with cheating, either his father’s or his, is fan fiction.
He has hated his royal role since he was a child. It didn’t come about later in regards to his mother or how she was or wasn’t treated by the Windsors or the press.
I also had high hopes for them and forgive me for being so harsh, but from what I see, they have evolved into two insipid empty barrels. They do not pull their weight in the BRF and the excuse is that they are “busy” young parents. What will the excuse be 15 years from now?
That they have teenagers. 😉
And after that they will say they are too old to be expected to work.
That they have aging [Middleton] parents to care for.
Oh, Lizzie, can you really believe Kate would be capable of looking after her parents? I know, I know, the servants would. I like the exuse, though. All the excuses. These two won’t ever pull their weight!
This thread is hilarious!
I thought it was interesting to see Kate has not improved her public speaking from those early days. Her sentences string along or wander even today. I also thought it was fascinating that one reason Will loved Kate was because he thought she was fun to poke fun at sometimes…that aspect of William has always annoyed me.
And if you are asked what you love about your future spouse, wouldn’t you expect one of the first things to be mentioned is kindness or a big heart? It is weird neither said that, especially since it sounds good in the media too.
Just a few questions:
Can you give a reliable source that the Queen and Charles were informed that late? Because I think this is all hear say. You wrote the ring was in a royal safe- you cannot simple take things out of safes like that with no one reporting it. I am sure they all knew what was coming but maybe not the exact day when he was going to announce it. You wrote the Middletons were at Birkhall and Kate told her mother- if I recall correct Charles and Camilla were there too. They knew!
This is all a bit too much conspiracy in that part (for me, but then I also stand corrected on the Meghan/Harry relationship).
What indeed is true, that she did not really improve from there on. She made some steps and seemed to truly trying to learn and then at some point (for me shortly after George’s birth) it all went backwards. It makes sad, I had high hopes after all the drama with Sarah and Diana. I also feel for both of them because they seem miserable and tensed. Makes you wonder what went wrong. Hopefully they give their children lots of love so at least they will come out of this happy and prepared for whatever futere they might face. And from what I have seen, at least their are doing a ok job an that front. If they would just stop following the narrative of wild little boy and ladylike princess when they talk about them to people.
I hope that at one point they get their shit together and rise and shine or resign. I am with the Crown on Netflix and say “Monarchy is a calling”- the quesion is- will they be called and if will they listen?
KMR answered that questioned already when Miss K asked up thread. There are multiple sources linked at the bottom of the article that discuss how William only told his family two hours before the engagement including the BBC.
I’m reading through the articles and haven’t come across it yet, of course I starred reading the Vanity Fair article and those tend to be lengthy. When I come across the article(s), I will post the link here but it may take a few days.
There was an article linked above, Prince William’s 30th birthday: 30 facts about the Duke, and it is noted there.
It is noted in many, many articles from the time that William did not inform anyone on his side until 2 hours before the announcement.
I am not disputing that, a couple commenters wanted to know more about the 2 hours notice incident, I do as well, I was reading through the linked articles anyway because I like doing that kind of stuff and appreciate those links being provided.
I am starting to wonder though if it is a “telephone” situation and the 2 hours notice was not pertaining to the William not notifying the Queen and Prince Charles of the engagement itself until 2 hours prior, but something else like only giving two hours notice of the engagement announcement. The reason I say this is because the initial announcement was done in Prince Charles’ name and gives details like William proposed in Kenya, got Michael Middleton’s permission, that the wedding will be the following Spring or Summer and that William and Kate will live in Wales.
Never underestimate how quickly BP/CH staff can mobilise. Announcements are made at 11.00am. Even if he had personally informed the individual press corps members, no one breaks that protocol for royal announcements. They look to the Palace to take the lead on these things.
Telling HM/POW at 9am is enougn time for the BP/CH to mobilise enough to make the announcement seem very well and sanctioned by them. Clearly they were also unhappy about the time frame given because they told press that they had only known 2hrs prior to the announcement. The Palace courtiers can be passive aggressive that way.
The announcement had to be announced officially by CH or BP. It wasn’t announced as coming from Prince William nor would it be.
Just like their wedding invitations said something along the lines of the Chief Royal chamberlain is instructed by HM/POW to invite you to the wedding. It’s protocol.
In terms of the proposal saying he did it in Kenya, but that is the official version. Most people know that isn’t strictly true.
William has a history of lying, so why wouldn’t he lie to CH/BP staff in the details they send out?
One of those lies was made clear the same evening of the announcement by William himself ie that William had sort Michael Middleton’s permission to marry Kate, yet when William is asked to confirm this in the engagement interview shown on TV that evening aka above, he says very clearly that he did not ask permission. He says he asked Kate first and then informed Michael Middleton.
An example of his lying, not just to the public, but to CH/BP.
I’m not into conspiracy theories but you should check out Richard palmers Twitter feed. Seems someone is trying to ask ?’s “for a friend” about the two hours!!!
Interesting. I wonder if it’s in response to my article. Eh, oh well.
Well according to Queen Mary, it was a calling from God, that the monarchy was grace and dignity and to signify to the ordinary people an ideal to strive for. To raise them up in their retched lives!!
At the time of the engagement there was a great political cartoon, but I’ve lost the link. It was Kate Middleton in the Issa dress, storming away from an office door, growling, “Longest damn job interview of my life.”
At the time I thought, pretty much the only job interview since she hasn’t worked in a decade.
omg! That is funny and so true 🙂
Was this it? This one looks like it was from the time of the 2007 break-up but fits your description:
It is flabbergasting that William did not inform Prince Charles and the Queen until two hours before the announcement. I don’t think that it had anything to do with concern that the Queen would not approve of William and Kate getting engaged and therefore some kind of end run had to be done, rather it had to do with discord with and / or distrust of William’s family and their courtiers, I’m leaning towards the latter. But even if there are grounds for this distrust, that should have been outweighed by consideration for William’s family and them not being thrown this last minute curve ball, that was a really strange move. Nevertheless, I think that William and Kate were engaged to be engaged since they got back together after their brief break up in 2007, so the engagement itself was not a surprise to the Queen and Prince Charles. Also the engagement announcement came from Clarence House and began, “The Prince of Wales is delighted…” my guess is that the statement had been drafted and shelved awaiting release.
Kate had a few inarticulate moments during the interview, heck maybe William didn’t tell her either until a couple hours before.
I don’t think that it’s in the videos above, but Kate’s entrance into the room with the photographers was a memorable moment for me, she’s basically leading with the ring, like in her head she is saying, “See my ring, SEE MY RING!!! You all know what ring this is, yeah that’s right!”
Speaking of the ring, my reaction was, “ewww, how creepy” when I saw that William gave Kate Diana’s engagement ring. My opinion that it’s creepy has not changed but I guess I got used to seeing Kate with it so I did not give it much thought but now I wonder if the ring is indeed cursed in some kind of way, especially when I think of how the Cambridges have aged. I finally figured out what to blame for CRAS (Cambridge Rapid Aging Syndrome), it’s the ring.
The Ring of Doom……
If it were me I would have asked for the big sapphire to have been set in a different setting, to honour Diana but make it mine too. Given the very unhappy marriage it does seem a ring of doom .
I think it would have made a beautiful necklace.
Protocol dictates that HM or POW announces the engagement even if William had organised the conference himsrlf.
POW/BP aren’t going to break with protocol no matter how unhappy they might be behind the scenes.
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