Prince William, Duke of Cambridge, and Kate Middleton, Duchess of Cambridge, were out and about today, October 10, attending a World Mental Health Day event at Harrow College hosted on by the charity Mind. They then attended the rugby match in the evening.
William and Kate met with volunteers (who previously suffered from mental health problems and now volunteer with the organizations) from Mind and Time to Change. Later William and Kate took part in a Mindkit training session and then attended a World Mental Health Day reception.
Mind is a charity that provides advice and support to empower anyone experiencing a mental health problem. They campaign to improve services, raise awareness, and promote understanding.
Time to Change is an anti-stigma campaign run by Mind and Rethink Mental Illness and is England’s biggest program to challenge mental health stigma and discrimination.
Mindkit offers free, interactive Wellbeing and Resilience Sessions to groups of young people, aged 14 to 25, to learn about evidenced-based approaches called ‘The 5 Ways to Wellbeing’ and Mindful Living to look after their mental wellbeing and boost their resilience, which can improve their ability to cope with life’s challenges, their self-confidence and performance.
From the Daily Mail:
“At the end of the session, William addressed the group, saying: ‘I could sit here and talk to you for hours. Thank you so much for sharing your stories with us. You are being incredibly brave doing this. I know it’s not easy for you re-living your experiences again and again. If we can get more young people talking, and coming through with their experiences, then we can really get mental health to the fore, which is where it should be and what we need to do.’
“Kate told the group: ‘I keep thinking about what else we can do and how we can raise awareness. Keep the ideas coming. We think it’s so important, so really well done for being ambassadors. Talking about mental health is so important.'”
There are more quotes from the Cambridges in the DM article.
I have to say, I know that William and Kate are on a mental health kick – what with William attending that anti-bullying event (that apparently I didn’t cover) and Kate visiting the Anna Freud Centre – but I’m still not convinced they really care. Maybe it’s the Kate skeptic in me, or maybe it’s because I’ve suffered from depression and social anxiety for 20 years, but I just have this negative feeling toward William and Kate attaching themselves to the mental health cause.
Depression is so hard to overcome because you can’t just think your way out of it. Your brain is the problem. It’s a negative feedback loop so even if you try to think positively your brain will tell you that you are wrong. In order to overcome it, you have to get out of your head and not listen to your brain. Fighting your own brain is one of the most challenging things.
The second most challenging thing is fully opening up about your issues. And I don’t just mean letting people know you have problems, I mean actually telling people what those problems are. It’s embarrassing, and you don’t want to tell people (even therapists) because 1) you think they will judge you, but most importantly 2) you are revealing the most intimate parts of yourself.
Overcoming depression and opening up about your issues is so hard, and I’ve never heard a celebrity campaign for mental health in a way I agree with. My negative feeling toward William and Kate is not William and Kate specific, it’s directed toward other celebrities, too. I’ve never heard a celebrity talk about how truly challenging overcoming a mental health problem is, or how challenging it is to even seek help because you are so afraid to open up about your issues.
Seeking help isn’t always easy especially if you are not willing to fully open up. I once went to a therapist and had a session with her, and at the end of it she told me I was fine and didn’t need to see her. That was after the psychiatrist in the same office diagnosed me as severely depressed and put me on a heavy dose of anti-depressants. I wasn’t even trying to fool the therapist, I just wasn’t willing to open up so she thought I was fine.
Mental health is a cause very close to my heart, and I just wish people with that kind of platform would campaign for it better. Ending the stigma and promoting understanding are all well and good, but no one will get help if they do not first seek it out, and second be fully open to accepting it.
And breath… Let’s move on… to cupcakes. Yum.
Kate wore a Tory Burch “Paulina” black and white dress she previously wore at the Plunket event in New Zealand in April 2014. Kate wore her her standard black Stuart Weitzman Power pumps and carried her standard black Mulberry Bayswater clutch. Kate added to her Kiki McDonough collection with a new pair of “Lauren Yellow Gold Pave Diamond Leaf Earrings” (£2,200.00) (thanks to the ever quick Anna for the id on these).
I was not a fan of this dress the last time Kate wore it and I’m not a fan of it now, but I think it’s probably a good thing that Kate recycled a dress. I’m not a big fan of the earrings, either. There are another pair of Lauren leaf earrings that are less expensive and in my opinion much prettier than the ones Kate chose.
By the way, I want to bring up something that intrigued me. None of the regular royal reporters I follow on Twitter made any mention of the WMHD event today. None. The Daily Mail articles on William and Kate today are not written by the regular DM royal reporter, Rebecca English. The Mirror article was not written by their regular royal reporter, Victoria Murphy. And there are no articles from the Express. The Sun’s Emily Nash wrote the Sun article, but she barely tweeted about the event. And it seems like the regular royal photographer who gets special privilege to photograph events that others are excluded from, Chris Jackson, did not take any photos of the event. Hm…
William and Kate attended the Australia v Wales rugby match at Twickenham Stadium. Wales lost to Australia 15-6. William wore his glasses and a red Wales scarf in support of Wales, while Kate wore her Reiss “Delaney” jacket which she previously wore to a children’s hospice in December 2013. Kate also wore a black turtleneck, a burgundy scarf, and the same earrings from earlier in the day. Go here for the DM article. Below are some photos of the faces Kate pulls when at sporting matches.
Photos: Getty / Kensington Palace @KensingtonRoyal / Kiki McDonough
107 thoughts on “Prince William and Kate Middleton attend World Mental Health Day event, Wales rugby match”
There’s a cringe-worthy quote in the DM from William: “I’m not allowed cakes.” It’s more of that antiquated “I’ll have to check with the missus,” rubbish he peddles from time to time.
Yeah I read that one. I assumed it had more to do with staying fit for flying, but I could see how it might mean Kate doesn’t allow him to eat sweets.
I never thought it might be for his air ambulance job. I just assume he does whatever he wants with it and if he doesn’t show up, he can say “royal duties,” if his C.O. says “You have to do this,” he says “I’m Your Royal Highness, zippity do da.”
I would think there would be weight regulations or something like that for flying. But I don’t know. That’s what I was thinking when I read that quote of his. But who knows what he meant.
Having seen the article and the comment “it is a Kate thing” he has to shape up to her standards – ma middleton all over again. It is his attempt to try and sell the “normal” tripe – bill is known to be petulant, demanding and pompous – have seen him in action – the falseness of the pair of them was obvious. Bill is too full of hate, disrespect (for his blood/royal family who he still blames for his mother – the press thing is just a cover story) – he does not even bow his head to Her Majesty – and kate will curtsey to no-one if she can get away with it. It is written all over their faces and in their body language. Plenty of balcony photographs to back that up. Cannot abide such disrespect – and a bit of humility on both their parts would not go amiss either. Have a good day/evening wherever you are.
The Queen famously demands not to be filmed or photographed while eating. She feels its difficult/impossible to look dignified while chewing, and I agree. I read Williams comment as a lighthearted (in his mind) attempt to refuse the cakes while not putting anyone else off from eating. William is clumsy as hell, but there’s no story here, IMO.
I agree, Red Snapper. The worst pics I have ever seen of myself and other people have been taken while eating!
When I saw the first pictures of Kate in the Tory Burch dress, my heart sank and I got all grumbly.
Duchess, how stick in the mud boring and repetitive (color wise) do you have to be? You know half the people who show any interest in you do so because of what you wear!!! We know you’re a toothpick, everything you have accentuates that (and if it doesn’t, you’ll be sure to cinch it in with a massive belt). Bring on the color, please (there are beautiful things lurking in that closet – we’ve all seen them!)
Her Majesty the Queen may chose to do whatever she wishes. She is the Sovereign. Willy is not. He shouldn’t be given that courtesy.
Wow, KMR, that’s the first alternative view on William’s comment that I’ve seen and it’s actually quite plausible. My immediate thought went straight to ‘the missus’ won’t allow me. This, for me is an eye opener and tells me that I need to keep at least a bit more of an open mind. That doesn’t mean that my opinions have changed at all, in fact it still angers me that William is playing at being a rescuer when I am convinced that he simply wants to fly his whirlybirds and come across as caring. I do want to keep myself from becoming too solidified in my own thinking, though.
“I’m not allowed cakes.”
How passive aggressive of you William.
As a guest, it was also rude and hurtful to decline the cake. Just a bite would have sufficed, and the cakes looked small anyway.
I imagine the Cambridge’s people would have been working with the organisation and known that cupcakes were to be offered and these were presumably checked for nasty things etc…
Just saw a video on The Prince’s Trust on You Tube and Charles and Cams are drinking tea and eating cakes provided by the people they were meeting. It can be done with grace.
And the whole arrogance of Wills not wanting to take over the Trust makes me sick, but that’s a rant for another day.
I have to agree. It’s a freaking cupcake! EAT A CUPCAKE! They made them for you, you jerk!
Here Here Amy!
When I read that comment I thought that Kate must be laying down the law and stopping William from eating sweet things and he was saying that in public as a way of getting in a dig at her.
Well said. Depression is a vicious cycle and is completely unforgiving.
Sure, these WHD events bring awareness to the issue. However, it is much more complex than 45 minutes will allow.
Kate’s quote from today –
“I keep thinking about what else we can do and how we can raise awareness. Keep the ideas coming. We think it?s so important, so really well done for being ambassadors. Talking about mental health is so important.”
Maybe they should stay home? I find their sudden support for mental health patronizing and false.
I know what you mean.
Literally, “Keep the ideas comin’, good job errybody. let us know what else we can to help. k gotta go, bye” *effs off to a rugby game*
Yes. This pandering is disrespectful.
Yes, her comment was so patronizing. “Like, it’s totally important this cause we’re here about, you guys. Like, really important.” Um, no sh–. Everyone in that room was there because they know it is important. They don’t need to be told that by Kate.
Remember when #poorjason started work, and KMR put up a post with advice? One of our ideas was that the Cambridge should pick a cause and stick to it. I think they’re doing that and they’ve chosen mental health.
Animal conservation doesn’t resonate with people, and William keeps getting hammered for hypocrisy.
Children’s hospice didn’t work for Kate, because she has no empathy and sick people make her uncomfortable. The Children’s Princess never caught on somehow *cough*.
Mental health is actually a good issue/cause for them. It could use Royal support.
I doubt if their hearts in it. They are probably hoping to do the minimum work and get the maximum pr benefits.
I suffer from serous depression and have a son who has some mental health issues and I agree.Once again these two are using the most vulnerable for their PR and Kate’s insane grinning and wrinkled nose (which looks off kilter to me) hardly indicates that she’s really interested or caring, just playing off her Disney Princess persona. That’s it for me since I would think that a serious or at least neutral look would hardly be out of place but that’s imo who she is at all times. I also find that William has his ‘normal Joe’ casual look on and there she is dressed to the nines. This is an insult since anyone who follows these guys knows that their PR needs a boost and where better than ‘the mentally ill’. I guess they didn’t get the memo that depression and mental illness are no longer taboo subjects and that the medical field has acknowledged these conditions as genuine and treatable. Who needs a dressed down little Prince and a gussied up vapid laughing hyena to ‘help the cause’. I see nothing but ‘we’re going into a ‘tabooed’ place to lend our support to the poor suffering lower life forms’ (I can say that because I am one of them) and lookie how brave we are and how willing to associate with the, well I won’t say anymore because I don’t want to hurt anyone. My comment is based on personal experience and I wouldn’t want these idiots anywhere near me or mine. Condescending phonies, and trust me, these people aren’t stupid, sick yes, stupid no!!
Re William’s “normal joe” look v Kate dressing up: This happens on red carpets, too. Where the girl will be in some expensive dress, hair done, makeup done, high heels… and the dude is in jeans or some dressed down look. Like the guy can get away with dressing down but if the woman did she’d get negative comments. It’s a double standard that I hate so much. It annoys me that the Cambs play into that. William should have either dressed up more to match Kate or Kate should have dressed down a bit to match William. They should match in levels of dressed up-ness.
They are really not well-advised… or prefer doing their own thing. But yes, the mismatch in dress was a puzzle. I agree that there is a double standard in that what is acceptable for a male is not acceptable for a female partner! Kate would have been damned either way.
With young people the focus of the event, smart casual attire would have been just fine. Surely the event and the people to be met give cues to appropriate dress?
Looks like William dressed like a Dockers commercial because he didn’t want to change before rugby. He’s wearing the same clothes, just added a navy sweater. Kate changed her entire outfit.
I think this is Kate’s version of working dressed down, a simple dress, and to be fair I’m not sure what other casual look she could have worn without it looking like she’s headed to another polo match or olympic sporting event. They are meeting young people, who too were casual, and while still serious this was a less formal and stuffy event. I think women have more options than men on this front in terms of fashion. For me personally I think they were both dressed fine.
Nice trousers, a nice shirt, and heels? I think there is a middle ground between dress and heels and skinny jeans and a striped top that Kate hasn’t figured out yet.
Thank you for sharing your view on depression, KMR. I empathize. As you wrote, Breathe!
Just speechless at the nothing-burger the Middletons have become. Kate, for whatever reason, is unsuitable for this “job.” It’s so sad in a way — these two are the future of the Monarchy. They lack warmth and compassion and seemingly have plucked mental health out of thin air as an issue worthy of their scant attention. I give up on attempting to enjoy watching this generation of the House of Windsor. I’m changing the channel.
As for mental health as someone currently fighting to not be depressed and someone with an anxiety condition, I wish Kate would actually do more for it. As you both know, it’s a very, very serious issue. It would be better if Sophie did more patronage for it but she’s busy enough. I describe my depressions as being unable to move. I get stuck in my head and the negative chatter becomes overwhelming. I can’t move forward, I can’t go back. I can’t go from side to side. I’m unable to move in any direction at all and feel that NOTHING I do will make a scrap bit of difference. It’s like there’s a huge dark wave rolling toward me, going to engulf everything. That’s my description of depression. Feel free to disagree if you wish.
I don’t think there is one description of depression. I think depression is so individual because the causes of each individual’s depression are different. So each person can have a different description of depression and they are all correct.
I describe my version of depression as like being in a pit so deep you can’t see the sky. It’s dark, and damp, and when I try to scratch my way up the wall I slip and slide back down. I keep trying, and can get a few feet up, but it’s so slippery that the smallest thing can send me sliding back to the ground.
Oh definitely there’s no one description of depression It’s an individual thing. I like the metaphor of a pit and sliding back down hen you try clawing your way out.
Thank you for openly discussing your issue with depression KMR. There is comfort knowing that others fight this terrifying disease. I too battle depression on a regular basis and your description rings so true. In my darkest moments depression shrinks my life into an existence consisting only of a terrible black emptiness completely devoid of hope and happiness. Kate completely lacks the caring necessary to take on such a serious issue. It actually makes me angry that she with her fake expressions and lack of empathy and commitment to work would chose mental illness as one of her platforms. What an insult it is to those fighting this terrible battle having this woman as their voice.
Greetings Seth and all those suffering from depression,
Hard, difficult road ahead – you cannot go around it, over it, or sometimes even through it but please try and remember that even on the darkest night there will be light when the morning comes – people do understand, and those fighting dark thoughts, deep sadness or never ending grief, just trust that if someone passes, and gives you a smile – that may be all they have to give but it is given to you – a gift to pass on. I am not expert but I know pain. One other thing – I live by the simple principle that Kindness is a language which the blind can see and the deaf can hear – so you are heard and seen. Kind regards.
Seth, even if I weren’t a person who suffers from depression I would never ever ‘disagree’ with how it feels for you. I have suffered for years and thru a whole lot of them depression was considered a ‘you just need to snap out of it type of thing’. I had people after me to smile, to appreciate life, telling me I should be grateful, that I just needed to get up and do something, etc. KMR is right as are all on this forum who realize that while there are things that indicate and identify this horrible disease there are many many different forms and symptoms, and no broad brush. Hey, maybe the idiots did accomplish something. We are opening up to each other and I hope I am supportive of each and every one who has experienced this. If I have offended someone it was unintentional and I appreciate and respect this particular KMR offering more than any thus far.
Hey royalsareajoke, I’m not sure if you actually offended someone or if you just want to be extra courteous but you didn’t offend me in the slightest b/c it’s all a matter of individual experience and individual brain chemistry (among a myriad of other factors). “Maybe the idiots did accomplish something”–LOL, love it! b/c I think that did do some good for all of us to open up to each other about our experiences. Maybe Will and Katie are good for some things after all, LOL.
Hi KMR, thanks for the post and for talking about your depression. I hope that by talking about and sharing that you will lighten the load.
We do have a celebrity (ex All Black) here in New Zealand called John Kirwan. He has openly spoken of his battle with depression, and is actively involved in mental health and depression awareness campaigns in New Zealand. Since JK did this it has been a lot more easier for people (and especially males) here to talk about their own depression.
And the total disgrace of this shameful exhibition? These two whingers and whiners spent MORE time at the Rugby match than at the Mental Health Charity. The Devotees are praising these arrogant, out of touch twerps for their “caring etc” – truth is they could not care less. It was a total photo op (kate knew where all the cameras were and bill scowled as usual) – then off they trot to the Rugby where they gave it their all. Shows where their true character is and it is not with the people who are hurting in this world.
The other idiot thing that has been plastered over DM is ma middleton dressed like her 33yrd old daughter who behaves like a 3 yr old – which is trying to take the heat out of her getting photographed trying to clingon to Prince Harry and getting sloshed on the hidden stash of wine. Hypocrites all three of them bill, kate and ma (obviously the 3 in the marriage is what they are into).
As for Harry had he been the heir – no matter how many scrapes he got himself into – a middleton would not have been one of them. I think Prince Harry will ALWAYS go for true class like his Mother. That of course will put snotty, jealous kate in her place. Just because she has had the kids that everyone praises her for raising on her own (which is BS) does not mean that her laziness has the upper hand. Common is as common does – tries to act important to put people down. That is evident in everything she does.
Good to see the smirk wiped off both their faces when Wales lost. Only because the grace that Prince Harry showed in the face of England’s loss was not reciprocated by his gloating brother.
Truly sick to death of these people bill and kate – Prince Harry all the way and a pleasure, always seeing the European Royals and the hardworking ones of the British Royal Family.
Check out the comments in the DM on both headlines – quite telling – shows what people really think of the two leeches.
Have a great day/evening wherever you are.
If they really want to be involved, I would expect to see more than an occasional visit to an organization. I’d like to see something more concrete. I’ve had/have my bouts with depression, I’ve had to take time off of work to deal with it. The image in my mind at my worst was me trying to climb out of a room that was all glass. I could see everything going on around me, but I couldn’t get out, all I could see was my hand sliding down the wall as I tried to get a grip to get out. As anyone who’s dealt with it or is dealing with it knows, it’s a long, hard road. Still having issues with anxiety.
My hope is that if they are really sincere about getting involved they will do more than just show up at events. Yes, they bring a light to the organization but that’s not enough. If they want to make a change, they need to focus on getting these organizations the funding they need and help in any way they can to continue to shed light. Not a couple of appearances to shore up their numbers while trying to look compassionate at the same time.
I sometimes wonder if this seemingly sudden interest has to do with something related to them personally.
About your last sentence, Lisa, that’s what I was thinking. I’ve heard people say they think Kate could possibly suffer from postpartum depression. If that is true (not saying it is, but if it is), then this sudden switch in focus could be because of that.
I think the best charity work comes from a personal connection. Like, putting me with veterans wouldn’t end well. Not because I don’t fully support our veterans – I very much do – but I have no experience with the military and would not be able to speak about the subject or connect with veterans the way someone who has that experience would. But mental health? Of course I can speak about that. I have first hand experience and can connect with that cause.
Of course, one does not have to have first hand experience with a cause in order to support it, but the cause’s champions and spokespeople should, in my opinion. Or at least, not that they should, but it makes it better because they can speak about it more genuinely and are able to better connect to the people the cause is trying to support. Look at Sophie and blindness – she is able to speak more genuinely about that topic since she experienced it with her daughter. Or look at Harry – he can speak and connect so much more genuinely to veterans because he himself is one. That’s why I always assumed Kate’s causes were chosen for her because she just does not seem to connect with them.
I actually think this might be William’s directive, something that’ll be the Cambridges’ focus. The quote from an unnamed person from a mental health charity that Sky News really made a fuss about (mentioned below) and the article KMR mentioned a few weeks ago about Kate focussing more on mental health leads me to believe this is all very intentional and perhaps even credit to Jason.
I think someone might have had a quiet word with William about the turning tide. Conservation and Kate with children (palliative care and the scouts) have not showcased any real passion that they might have to make a difference in these areas so I think they’ve been advised to find something else and get behind it. I’m sure William will still do things with conservation but I think it doesn’t hit home for most and there are the “you kill animals” critics, and people don’t all want to hear the poaching and endangered species is different line. I honestly think he really connects with and does care about individuals that have experienced hardship, in his dealings with them away from the camera that side of him comes across. I remember the letter he wrote to the family of the nurse who worked at Lindo Wing and committed suicide. He gave his number to the guy they met in New York offering to personally help. In a walk about in Canada he met someone dying of cancer and called Kate over and they spent a couple of minutes with him talking about it all including death.
William has had experiences with mental health, his mom had PD and I’m sure he’s aware of how ill-equipped his family were with recognizing and fully supporting her. If this was Kate driven because she’s passionate and cares I think there would have been enough interest for her to add this instead of majorly shifting from her other charitable endeavours since she does little with them anyway. I could be wrong, I hope I am, but I just don’t see Kate as someone who cares beyond herself and family to the extent of worrying about a problem that’s affected her and what other people’s experiences around that same issue are – she comes off so disinterested when people that aren’t celebrities or Ben Carsington talk to her.
Re your glass room: As I said to Seth, there is no one description of depression. I don’t know what your experience was and I know it’s just an analogy, but I feel like it would be even more maddening to see the outside world and not be able to break out of your glass cage. Hopefully your worst is behind you and that you’re making progress with your anxiety. Sending virtual hugs your way.
I like that analogy Lisa. You can see everything going on around outside but you can’t join it. Maybe like seeing a car crash in slow motion? That’s kind of what I mean when I can’t move in any direction. I’m just stuck where I am and KNOW I’m stuck. That’s worst than not knowing because of course no one wants to feel that way but I can’t get out of it, can’t stop it, can’t change it. Hugs!
I have a daughter with a serious mental illness. Seeing the constant battle each and every day. What a shame people out there are so frightened of mental illness. If only they would take the time to understand and care. If the Duke and Duchess can bring to light the seriousness of mental illness and get the message out there, that patients afflicted are not to be ostracised. There needs to be more research and funding.
It was terrific to see them supporting the Mental health day event.
I would love to see both of them do so much more, just the fact that their both involved could open new avenues, us carers can only hope.
My daughter on more than one occasion has said to me how “good it is to see the Duchess out and about meeting people like herself”, it nearly breaks my heart.
To all the fellow mental health sufferers out there you are not alone and sincerely much love and kind thoughts to all of you.
Wow. Thanks for sharing that Sophia. Much love and kind thoughts to your daughter.
How lovely of you, I will pass that message on. Thank you so much
I think Jason has brought his PR magic to the table. I found the comment on Sky News interesting, that Will and Kate are recognised as global ambassadors when it comes to mental health, and they mentioned the one event William went to (the Diana awards/bullying school visit) and Kate’s two. I thought that was odd, because it’s been less then a month of them getting involved with mental health and only 4 events. I’m trying to remember but it’s just been so long since Kate has done anything the Art Room but I think it was around children and confidence and maybe processing trauma?
Also globally, really? If anyone from the Royal Foundation of the Duke and Duchess of Cambridge and Prince Harry has done work that’s been recognised (even celebrated) globally it’s Harry with the Invictus Games and Sentebale. Harry’s work with wounded vets from the get go has included mental health. Right from the first documentaries for the first Pole walk and in interviews with Harry.
I suppose W&K have a platform that is global but globally recognised as ambassadors is something else. I do hope they really give this their backing and not half a** it or only put in appearances to offset criticism for upcoming holidays or fun sports events and movie premieres.
I think William could do something with this. In general he actually does seem to care and feel something for individuals who’ve experienced hardship or have cards decked up against them.
I’m sorry but who recognizes them as global ambassadors for anything and where are these people? They do 4 events in a month and they’re global leaders. It’s like where I read that Prince William is one of the UK’s leading ambassadors/emissaries. 15 events in 5 years hardly qualifies him in my mind as an ambassador when his father, his aunt and others carry out 3-4 tours a year that can last for 2-3 weeks. At least half of William and Catherine’s events lasted less than 48 hours, like the commemoration services in Normandy and Belgium in summer 2014. The only tours they’ve undertaken that are similar to the ones by Charles and other senior royals, were the Canada-U.S. tour in 2011 that lasted 11 days, the Jubilee tour of parts of Polynesia and Singapore that lasted 8 days, the 2014 Australia-New Zealand tour that lasted 18 days and the Feb.-March 2015 Japan-China tour that lasted a week. And as we’ve said on this blog many times before, a good chunk of the activities that William and/or Kate undertook were things most of us would do on vacation, so “work” not so much. I just realized that it’s been four years since the marriage and Kate has yet to undertake a solo overseas engagement. Diana, Princess of Wales represented the Queen in Monaco at Princess Grace’s funeral only a little over a year after her marriage. If I recall correctly, I read that the Palace didn’t want to send anyone initially b/c of Grace’s celebrity past, her being a former film star and whatnot but Diana insisted she would go.
She got out of the Malta trip because of her “HG”.
I will consider them to be global ambassadors when they start getting invited to, attending and speaking at international forums regarding the subjects they are championing. It’s great they are shedding light on things, but there’s really no need to pump what they’ve done up to the global level. When Kate does what Maxima, Mary and Rania do by speaking at real international meetings and actually working with organizations around the world I’m not calling her an ambassador.
According to Wikipedia, the cause for the cancellation was “morning sickness” not HG, which is very different as of course we’ve discussed on here numerous times. It says she suffered something similar in her second pregnancy. But she could fly to Mystique and sun herself on the beach with severe HG.
I completely agree with nearly all that you said. But as someone who had HG with all three of my pregnancies, I know how absolutely debilitating it can be. Not being able to put any food in your mouth without gagging, or worse, and constant nausea takes a huge physical toll. I almost had to be hospitalized twice for dehydration, which is what she supposedly was with George, and only avoided because she got fluids at home with Charlotte, and HG is normally worse with girls because of the extra estrogen in your system. The rest of the time she gets less of a pass but for that one, I’m giving her the benefit of the doubt.
Hi Em, I’m so sorry to hear you had HG all three of your pregnancies. It really does sound awful.
Reading the description of your experience, along with others who’ve had HG, is why I’m not entirely convinced Kate had it. Severe morning sickness, yes I can believe that, and even that’s no child’s play but HG is pretty serious. For such a debilitating condition and from what I’ve read the duration it can last, it doesn’t add up when I think of how Kate not too long after saying she had it was out and about, including holidays that showed her running around on the beach. During her pregnancy with Charlotte most royal reporters didn’t use HG and instead wrote severe morning sickness, which again must suck but it very different to HG. W&K have put spins on this too often for me to take things don’t aren’t concrete at face value anymore. Them sneaking out to holiday in France instead of being at the Paralympics, or the changing versions of why they left George when they went to Maldives. Or the timeline they gave us for when William’s old nanny joined them. Or saying they wouldn’t hire any help and ‘family/Kate’s mom will help us cause we’re just like us’ spin while they had a maternity nurse for the first few weeks at Kate’s parents house with them. I didn’t have to lie about it, no one would begrudge them for it.
Yes I’m very sorry to hear you had such difficulties with your pregnancies Em. I completely agree with Gie. Kensington Palace and the press used “severe morning sickness” or “H.G.” to describe what is normal morning sickness. H.G. can be life threatening. It was recognized and treatable as a serious disorder in the late-1950s. What Katie had is absolutely not H.G. and it insults those women whom have had to truly suffer with it.
Sorry, so many errors in that last one :(, was in a rush cause my battery was dying.
– family/Kate’s mom will help us cause we’re just like *you
– W&K have put spin on *things too often for me to take things *that aren’t concrete facts at face value anymore
– *they didn’t have to lie about it
It’s also important to keep in mind that there is no “test” or strict determination for when a woman has HG. It is very, very severe morning sickness. I don’t mean that in a way that diminishes how horrible it is, but rather, it’s like the extreme end of a scale for how bad morning sickness can be. Different doctors diagnose HG at different levels of extreme morning sickness. There is no set in stone way to determine when a woman has HG or “just” bad morning sickness. So it’s possible Kate’s doctors just diagnosed her for slightly less terrible morning sickness than the horror stories we hear about HG. Additionally, if you get treatment early enough and constantly enough, you recover faster. Kate has the best medical care in the world. It’s possible it was really bad for her but she recovered quickly because of that medical care. And in reality, most women do feel MUCH better after their first trimester, which is when she went to Mustique. That being said, most women probably still wouldn’t risk flying halfway across the world to an island with very little medical care, but perhaps Kate did feel much better for a bit of time.
I think it’s clear Kate recovered quickly from HG, but that doesn’t mean she never had it. It certainly doesn’t mean she’s lying. Her doctors may just be quicker to diagnose HG than other doctors, and frankly, that’s a very good thing that needs to be done more often. One of the biggest problems with HG is that doctors are reluctant to call it that and instead just stick to saying it’s morning sickness (which again, it technically is but “morning sickness” doesn’t sum up the condition completely in the case of HG).
Thank you for the information Maggie. It’s true she has excellent medical care and perhaps she could risk it. But there was also a report that Ma Midds was looking up home remedies on the Internet. Now it’s entirely possible that was true. But given that Kate has access to state-of-the-art medicine and world-class physicians, I doubt her mother would find anything more useful for her on Google.
I’d like to know who and from what charity this “credible person” who wouldn’t go on record is. I honest believe this is PR Jason magic at work, what a fixer would do.
W&K’s tours are a walk in the park compared to other members of the Royal Family judging by the number of engagements they do in a day, the amount of rest days they factor in, at exclusive nice resorts mind you and the type of engagements they undertake – mostly fun, self-serving and often not connected to their causes or of any great meaning and significance to the the country or the UK. Other members of the RF have commented that they refuse to do any of the boring events at home.
I recall that Diana was so happy when an aide told her she did well because no one in the family had said anything upon her return. I wonder how the Malta trip come about behind the scenes and if Kate ever intended to go or if she just realised maybe she’d bitten off more than she could chew during the prep work. Honestly, which supposedly-HG suffer knowingly plans for a pregnancy around the time of a royal tour, and a very significant one at that. Cleary someone who wants to jump ship. I struggle to take this woman seriously, she just doesn’t seem to care for the monarchy or the country she’s meant to represent, what a shame.
Hi KMR think you are very brave to discuss you’re battle with depression. Re your comments on lack of media coverage I live in the uk and there has been little on the BBC news website . They also have a popular pages section on the website and this visit is not even in the the top ten. As you say Hm….
I just checked the Express website and there is finally an article about this visit. But it wasn’t written by Palmer.
I would love to know if the press was simply not invited, or if they made a conscious choice to not go.
I hope *SO MUCH* it was a conscious choice to snub Grumpy & Gurny, by the press pack.
I’m with you JL. I really hope it’s a case of the press giving Wills and Waity exactly what they say they want. Even as much as Diana had that love/hate affair with the media, she was smart enough to know their power and ultimately how to work them on her behalf.
And I think wearing black to a mental health event is in extraordinarily bad taste.
Oh my goodness, you are absolutely right; who needs to be reminded of ‘the black dog’.
I agree with KMR that Will and Kate seem ill-suited to this role, they do come off as patronizing. Kate is just doing a pap stroll, and William really doesn’t seem interested. I can’t stand these two….at all.
That’s a good word to describe it: patronizing. Like those people don’t already know how important it is to talk openly about mental health issues.
Depression has been anamed unwanted “friend” that I’ve dealt with my whole life. There a days where it doesn’t impactake me and days where it’s crippling. I feel like I am wrapped in cellophane and can’t breathe. I appreciate your honesty, KMR. I exercise daily and see a therapist regularly. I just finished a Spartan Race yesterday to provide that I can beat it.
I hope that their new found passion sticks. This is a disease that needs to be in the spotlight. But, they will cling theory it and throw it away. My worry is for the people they met. This is a highlight for them. Imagine what it would do the them if Will and Kate ditch them they way they have with everything else.
I’m really trying to be nice and think nice thoughts about this function but I am just too distracted by Kate’s eyebrows and the over use of hair extensions, wiglets, whatever on Kate’s head. I like the dress and liked it the first time round, not sure if repeating a dress gives her a pass for some new pricey earrings though. maybe if it was just William attending then I would be paying attention to the message and not concentrating on the overly makeuped eyebrows dancing on his wife’s face?
I was thinking a repeated dress was a good choice as to not pull focus from the event. But then she snuck those 2K earrings in there. They aren’t even that great looking. I really think Kiki McDonough is very overpriced. She has some cute things, but I would never spend that much money on dinky earrings like that.
I can’t even see Kate’s earrings in the photos. She might as well have not worn any.
Totally agree India on your comment. Why bother with the earrings when all you see is this monster of a hair that covers half of Waity!
Thank you for the post, KMR. It was very well written. I’m glad that Kate and Will are putting focus on mental health, especially for children. Mental health in adults is often misunderstood, and even less understood in children and youth. I hope that Will and Kate are sincere in their efforts and they give this cause the attention that it deserves. I sincerely hope that for them, it is more than just getting headlines and points for their royal duties.
Reading the stories of the young people in the article really touched me. Especially, the young girl who was misdiagnosed with ADHD when she was bi-polar. When she talked about telling her friends what she was experiencing, they isolated her and stigmatized her. It’s hard enough being a teenager, let alone dealing with this on your own.
I really appreciated your description of depression, KMR. Often, it is difficult for those of us who haven’t experienced it to really understand. Unfortunately, there are still people (doctors even) who don’t treat it as a serious thing because they can’t see it. Because it’s not as simple as putting a cast on a broken arm, or putting stitches on a cut, many don’t take the time to acknowledge that mental illnesses are a real condition.
Mental health is an important topic to me. My husband has a serious mental illness that he has lived with since he was 19. He is doing incredibly well now and has gotten his life back on track. There were several dark years after his diagnosis where he would go off his meds and go into a relapse (this was before we met). Now he is able to manage it and is succeeding in life. I am so proud of him! I wish I could tell more people about his success. A few friends know, but we don’t talk about it too much because his illness is so incredibly stigmatized – to the point where it could affect career prospects.
This ended up being much longer than I expected and not completely about Will and Kate. It’s a topic that is very important to me and I hope that they give it their serious attention
Is it just me or does Kate have a new ring ie maybe a push present? In some pics appears to have a third band on her wedding finger? Or am I seeing things?
The third band on Kate’s ring finger is an eternity ring she got in early 2014.
I have been wondering myself why the sudden interest with mental health? What I could think of is the fact that mental health issue and children hospice are “clean”. Probably the same reason the Duchess chose to be patron of the Art Room… High class, no dirt will soil her pretty manicured hands. Diana was able to touch and hugs people with serious diseases, like HIV/AIDS, even war victims… I bet spoiled duchess wants “clean” and presentable role… I just hope she will be serious about this new role she takes. Mental health is a serious issue, not merely a topic where she dresses up, waves and leaves… William was probably dragged into this since she realised that her popularity is going down very fast.
Oh definitely Mia, she wants something “clean” to do. But the irony to me is that she is already patron of the Art Room, of the 1851 Trust, the National Portrait Gallery, the Natural History Museum and Sportsaid, so it’s not like she couldn’t do “clean,” glamorous “work” if she wanted. She just doesn’t have the interest in any of it. And she’s come in for criticism for it.
There is a slight improvement here, as she didn’t flash small children. The dress was okay, but I would still rather see her with her hair pulled back neatly and wearing slacks and a blouse or a pencil skirt. Just anything that helps her not look like she just wandered on stage to receive the Prettiest, Prettiest Princess Award. I don’t know, she still seemed super fake to me. It also really bothers me that they are supposedly fighting social stigma, yet they only met with ex mental illness sufferers. Why couldn’t they have met with people currently struggling with mental illness? Diana would have and people loved her for it. Her over the top facial expressions really irritate me too and it bothers me that the only place she shows enthusiasm is when she’s in the Royal box at sporting events. They’re going to have to do a lot better than this to justify the lavish holidays they’re bound to go on this winter. I’m disgusted, as usual. Now off to read about Queen Rania Queen Leti, CP Mary, CP Victoria and Princess Sofia. I need something to get the bad taste out of my mouth and truly inspirational Royal women does the trick!
“Just anything that helps her not look like she just wandered on stage to receive the Prettiest, Prettiest Princess Award.”
This is just perfect hahahaha
What does being ‘global ambassadors’ actually mean? Is it attending functions for an hour or so, getting press coverage, and being visibly sympathetic to a cause, or is there more substantial, ongoing work behind the scenes that this couple does?
In terms of the Cambs, it is probably nothing more than a courtesy title.
Is it not inappropriate to be giggling & sniggering at an event that is so important to so many?
I think she read the DM article about how awesome their marriage is and what we can learn from them. If you watch the video she did exactly what that article praised them for and recommended, couples having playful banter. She offered William the flowers she’d just been given and made some comment. William didn’t really want to bite but then said something that helped include everyone else in the moment and made them laugh.
I’d like to commend her for supporting this cause so far. I would also like her to do more something substantial with this in the very near future.
Sidenote: I hate all Kiki jewelry. So expensive for something so tiny!! I like that Kate recycles her clothes, but please, her style is so boring.
I agree! Everything that she wears is typically “tasteful” and none of it is “ugly” but it’s boring! I would rather her take a risk now and again. Maybe sometimes the outfits might fall flat, but at least there would be some variety and interest. I think Queen Maxima has really nailed this. Sometimes her outfits are way out there. But at least I’m excited to see what she’s wearing!
I go online as I fall asleep for meditations. I like the ones on Youtube by Michael Sealy. I use the meditations for letting go of past hurts, past relationships if I had a hard breakup, etc. It doesn’t cure everything but it helps a little bit.
I use online meditations and hypnosis all the time. It’s wonderfully relaxing.
I give so many of you credit for finding positive comments about W&K (i.e. the dress was worn as to not distract), but I can’t buy into anything these two do recently.
What is with the two of them taking on mental health together? I know this is ‘really out there’, but could the two of them have a diagnosed MH problem? Could this be no more than finding they get the most press when they appear together.
It seems strange all of a sudden the two of them can’t go anywhere without being attached at the hip. Did Kate throw a tantrum and tell Will she doesn’t want to do as many single engagements? Does she realize she is terrible at events on her own and needs Will to get her through a simple hour of work. Who knows!
I suspect that this is a new attempt to sell the “Fairy Tale”. Personally, I don’t buy it but the sugars might need a ‘fix’ 🙂 🙂
I agree with the distinguished commentator below me and would add that perhaps Katie and Willy realize if they go together, they can each get credited in the Court Circular, so it adds to their numbers. That could be the calculating, conniving reason. Another could be that Katie needs Willy as a security blanket of sorts (aside from the sausage curls, the clutch clutching, etc.) and needs him to baby sit her when My Precious Ma Midds isn’t around.
So we know she has no style, awful hair and makeup and looks tough, so on to other things. The no-fly-zone over Anmer. I can certainly understand this, as who would want drones flying over their house like mechanized peeping Toms. I think we would all want that. However, what I do see what is happening is how can you expect these 2 kids to have a somewhat normal upbringing, if they are so limited in where they can go. K and W have to understand that given who they are the public will always be interested and I think they can control press access if they choose. Basically, if they do not want their kids photographed in a public place, then they will know nothing of the outside world. I think Diana took them to McDOnalds and DIsney Land and Niagra Falls and there were pictures and everyone was happy. This is just bordering on paranoia and speaking of mental health, W needs to talk to someone to help him reconcile all of this anti-paparazzi feeling, and to stop letting it be such a big part of his life, because it is going to have a negative effect on those 2 children.
Katie Antoinette would be the reason for William’s diminishing popularity, if not already. I used to have a lot of respect for William and Harry, but I seriously only root for Harry now. I do not want to see her becoming Queen Kate one day. Imagine her having unlimitted access to crown jewels and spend most of her days trying to find dresses and hairstyle that suit her oh-so-shinny tiaras… “Your royal highness, we have some protesters outside the palace who will soon clash with the police. Your words may be able to soothe them…” Queen Kate coming out, “Today is no good, my hair appointment is in one hour and I haven’t done my eyebrows!”
I miss Princess Diana very much… She would have made the most wonderful queen… Instead we now have a scandalous ex-mistress with bad hair and the oh-so-shinny Duchess of Mustique on the line. This is tragic…
Her “unlimited access” to the Crown Jewels would actually be quite limited. She would never be allowed to wear St. Edward’s Crown (which is used by the Sovereign at the coronation) the Imperial State Crown (which is worn by the Sovereign on state occasions and in portraits), the Sceptre with the Cross (which is for the Sovereign at the coronation) and the Sceptre with the Dove (which is for the Sovereign at the coronation). A Queen Catherine would be entitled to wear one of two or three consort crowns. And it would be “Your Majesty, we have some protesters,” NOT Your Royal Highness!” 🙂
Really? From what I know, the current consort Prince Phillip is using HRH, not HM. Only the Queen is called HM. Does this differ for female consort? Of course there may be the question of whether she would be known as Queen Consort or Princess Consort, but I doubt she would like anything less than “Queen”.
Well, looking at her, I do not think she would like St Edward’s anyway. Somehow all large statement jewelleries look cheap on her. Remember when she used the Nizam of Hyderabad?
No. In Britain, a wife takes all the titles/styles, etc. of her husband. H.M. the Queen Mother was not the Queen Mother b/c she was the Queen’s mother but because she was the Queen consort of His Majesty King George VI. When she became Queen Dowager (a Queen who is widowed), she styled herself Queen Elizabeth the Queen Mother b/c calling herself Queen Elizabeth would have caused confusion with her daughter, the present Queen, and because her mother-in-law, Queen Mary, was still living. The Queen Mother LOATHED being referred to as a “dowager Queen” b/c she was only 51 and she was devastated by the King’s death and her loss of position of being The Queen. Styling herself “Queen Elizabeth the Queen Mother,” allowed her to be a queen twice over. 🙂
On the other hand, a male consort of a female Sovereign does NOT automatically take precedence in the male-preference primogeniture system. Instead he either takes precedence after his elder sons or his wife (as the current Queen did) grants him special precedence over and above everyone by Letters Patent.
There is some question as to whether Camilla may use the Princess Consort (which is a step higher than Prince Philip’s rank) instead of “Queen”. Constitutionally speaking, no such title exists or can exist, as again, a wife automatically acquires the rank of their husband. If Charles becomes King, she becomes Queen. As for Catherine, she could not use St. Edward’s Crown b/c that is only used for the coronation of the Sovereign. She will have crowns and tiaras to use aplenty but they will be that of a Queen Consort. In the unlikely and unfortunate event that William is incapacitated and Catherine has to become Regent for an underage Prince George (presuming that the current Regency Act of 1937 with amendments of 1953 has a remainder put in it), I believe that the Crown would be carried before her, as technically she would be exercising the powers of the monarch but would not be the monarch, so she would not be crowned. I added the part about the current Regency Act b/c as it is structured now, the next person in line of succession over 21 (Prince Harry), would become Regent until Prince George reached 18 years of age. Even if she was Queen, it is still possible that Prince Harry would become Regent, though the guardianship of Prince George would still belong to his mother.
The big jewelry pieces would probably look much better on Kate if she had her pulled back, instead of falling all over her face. If she wants to wear her air down she certainly has enough free time to do so, but she should either cut it to above her shoulders or wear it up when she is “busy” doing engagement.
I do not understand all the positive comments about Diana. She was an adulterer, a spoiled brat who never grew up emotionally and her fashion choices, especially in the Eighties, are really, really debatable… ok, she could connect with people, but she definitely is not a role model
Well… the ’80’s was a decade that style forgot! Mullets, frizzy hair, shoulder pads: who did look good?!
Diana was such a complex personality. Her appeal lay with the demonstration of empathy to others, an attribute not normally displayed by royalty at that time. Most understood and forgave Diana her flaws. That she died so very young, with two young lads left behind, saddened the world. I imagine most people can recall where they were when they heard the news of her death…
I was 11. We had just returned from our annual two-week vacation to Cape Cod and were settling in for TV watching when a crawl came across the screen that “Princess Diana was seriously injured in a car crash in Paris.” I went to bed thinking she was still alive. It was only the next day when my Mom told me she had died. Penelope, while Diana may not have been “a role model” in your view, her husband was not any better. He was also a spoiled brat who never grew up emotionally and he cheated on her with Camilla from their honeymoon on, when he brought stacks of books on philosophy to read instead of spending time with his new wife. He should have cautioned Sarah Spencer more about not meeting with press and married her, she was far more mature and level headed than Diana. But both sides were to blame for the dissolution of that marriage.
Of course he was also responsible, but she is the one mentioned as an example, whereas as an authentic role model needs to be made of a much better material than Diana. Merely touching people is really not enough and crying in public several times, in her position, was childish and immature.
The marriage does not work, you try better and if still does not work, you leave. She could have gone her way years before, but I guess she was very much attached to her royal status since she fought so had to keep the Princess of Wales title, while losing the HRH …
I see where you’re coming from and I actually kind of think at that point, constitutionally, they should have stayed together. Have Diana carry out some duties (she did more royal duties in the nine months before she died, as a divorced royal, then Katie has done to date this year as a married senior royal), allow her to keep the Kensington Palace apartment (which the Queen did anyway) and allow them to present a united front in public.
King Edward VII and Queen Alexandra (two more world-famous Waleses) did it for over forty years. The Prince of Wales was involved in several scandals that rocked Victorian high society, including being threatened as a co-respondent in the divorce case of Charles Mordaunt, 10th Baronet and his wife Harriet in 1869 and blackmailed by the Marquess of Blandford as a witness in the divorce case of the Earl and Countess of Aylesford in 1891. Also in 1891, he was accused being complacent in a British army officer cheating at baccarat, an illegal card game at the time, during a house party, which led to his being the first heir-to-the-throne subpoenaed since the 15th century.
I think my 92-year-old grandmother would agree with you. When I was discussing Charles and Diana with her a while back, she said “Well, that’s what men do.” “Why is it right for him to able to cheat and not Diana?” “Well, he’s a man, he can get away with it.” “Isn’t it wrong?” “Yes.”
I don’t care who cheated first (though I’m sure it was Charles, as Camilla was with him on the royal train the night of the royal wedding), both were at fault. Diana was a very insecure, needy woman with a lot of emotional problems. She never should have married into the Royal Family. But she’s been dead for almost 20 years and Charles and Camilla have been happily married for 10. Time to leave it alone? 🙂
New topic: Kate and William MIA (again…)
The Queen, as Patron of the Rugby Football Union, has hosted a reception at Buckingham Palace for 400 team members and officials participating in this year’s Rugby World Cup. Also present at the reception were Prince Philip, Princess Anne, Prince Harry, the Duke of Gloucester and Princess Alexandra. Prince Harry made a speech.
William and Kate were not there. Prince Harry is Vice-Patron of the Welsh Rugby Union, and Prince William is Vice-Patron of the RFU.
Happy, once again (at least it would seem to me anyway) to go to the fun stuff…
I understand where you’re coming from, but William and Kate were never scheduled to be there. So it’s not like they ditched something they were supposed to be at. And Harry was there not as Vice-Patron of the RFU, but as Honorary President of England 2015. If Harry hadn’t been, who knows if he would have gone. The younger three don’t often go to these types of receptions. I can give W&K a pass on this one, but I understand where you’re coming from in that they seem to only want to do fun events.
I have looked at the pics of the visit at the Mental Health Day event and I just can’t get excited about it. Kate either looks as bored as batsh*t or manic and I feel incredibly sorry for all of those people there who would have worked their bums off getting things ready for them. As for William not wanting to eat a cupcake, as others have said, it is a cupcake just eat the thing and not offend anyone. The person who made them would have been as proud as punch to have done so and for him not to eat one is just rude. It would have made the person’s day if he ate one or even took a bite but instead he just wouldn’t. Even if he had weight regulations to keep for his ahem “Flying job” one tiny cup cake would not have hurt.
Yeah it reminds me of a story 15 years ago of Christmas at Sandringham. A woman named Ms. Halfpenny (I think) had made bouquets of flowers for the Queen for some years. She was in the crowd watching the royals walk to Mary Magdalene Church for the Christmas service with a bouquet of flowers. She wanted to give them to Prince Harry to give to the Queen Mother but according to her, Princess Anne grabbed them roughly, said “What a ridiculous thing to do,” and ordered Princesses Beatrice and Eugenie to get a move on and not take flowers from anyone. She said she was very hurt b/c she had made flower bouquets for the Queen before and had always been given her compliments. A Buckingham Palace press officer said “What happened today was a misunderstanding. Princess Anne meets thousands of people every year.”
Maybe I have missed it, but does anyone think Kate is REALLY showing her age and showing it poorly?
I think she’s showing it poorly. She’s only 33 and she looks like she’s in her forties. She really should have kept some of that baby weight as it filled her out. Now she just looks drawn and haggard.
Personally, I don’t like flowers and don’t understand why people gift flowers because they just wilt and die a few days later. But I think it’s very rude of Anne to act like that to people who stand there waiting to see them and who bring gifts.
Well, it’s a standard socially acceptable gift to bring. And the flowers are donated to local hospitals, so I guess it does some good.
Oh, I know. What I was trying to say was that I could understand if Anne thought flowers were a stupid gift, but she should never have said that to the woman who brought them. You have to be professional in that situation even when you disagree with something or someone. Anne was a jerk for saying treating the woman that way.
I know KMR. I agree with you. 🙂
Comments are closed.