118 thoughts on “Prince William and Kate Middleton to visit Cornwall”

1. My first thought while reading this post was “yippee, another engagement” (deep, eye-rolling sarcasm). 11 engagements in 2 days, great way to get their numbers up without having to “work” more. Has KP decided that Kate is completely incapable of attending engagements on her own? Is there trouble in the snowglobe of Williamsville, so let’s put on the happy couples face? Seriously, what is with all the duo engagements of late?

   1. It does make one suspicious, doesn’t it Lauri? On top of that, they’re there for 2 days yet do 11 engagements but when Harry was in Orlando for about a week for Invictus it was only considered to be 1 single engagement (if any) in the CC? Sigh….

      1. Oh, we can’t forget they get credit in the CC for boarding and deboarding the plane and I imagine getting in and out of the car counts too. So, wow they could really rack up the points here! If Kate’s not careful this year might be one of her “busiest” yet.

         1. Lauri,

            I keep waiting for them to start counting showering and getting dressed, getting hair done, trips to the restroom!

         2. Fingers cross,ths Duchy is place in the care of appointed hardworking, duty worthy PRINCE HENRY or reverted to the people/government held for the next WORTHY POW; Instead of the entitled spolit bill middleton and the Bolyn (princess wig) carol.

         3. This is the woman that counted giving birth an engagement. LOL.

      2. It’s baffling to me that Harry actually does work. He puts his heart and soul into theses charities that he genuinely cares about. Yet they don’t count for him on the CC. Or if they do they are the bare minimum like 1. Where as, Will and Kate don’t care about any charity or anyone, but they get more credit in the CC for stupid things like boarding a plane. It is such a game to the royals and it obviously works since the public buys it. I just wish that people would open their eyes :(. I honestly don’t get how some think Will and Kate are such careing people.

         1. It makes me cynical.

   2. I’m beginning to think that. At the garden party when they split up, her posse of personal assistants and the photographer were all invited and she seemed to spend a lot of time talking to them rather than the guests. Also at the queen’s bday walk around she was the only one who appeared to have her PA with her.

      1. I think one day is will be revealed that Kate has a hole in her back that Rebecca slips her hand into and works the levers to move her mouth while Rebecca does the actual talking.

         1. Ha! Thanks for the laugh.
            I do think that instead of becoming more comfortable with solo engagements, she now seems to need shoring up.

            1. what is she so terrified of? Most people will be delighted to see her and she’ll always have people guiding her around and ensuring she doesn’t get stuck. These things are always co-ordinated and timed. She doesn’t have to give many speeches, all she has to do is make small talk and listen to people. She is baffling. It’s not as if she and William met a year ago and it was a sudden love match where she’s reluctant to be in the public eye etc. She spent years and years working towards this very opportunity now she’s struck dumb with terror and boredom.

            2. Kate is a manipulator, and still thinks she’s in her twenties, playing the fragile and demure card. She positively glows at the Ainslie events. She’s not worth concern.

2. Sorry for the off topic question, but does anyone know what will happen to the Cambridge title when Will becomes Prince of Wales? Will William keep it himself, or maybe George will get it……? Just curious, thanks.

   1. Stays with William.

      1. So he’ll be HRH, William the Prince of Wales, Duke of Cambridge, Duke of Cornwall, etc? What a waste of a title, another dukedom tied up indefinitely. My favorite dukedom title is Albany, but that will likely never get used again. They should recreate the dukedom of Buckingham for Harry.

         1. No I don’t think that’s right I think Cambridge will pass to George. Or if you followed the above logic Chatles would be kind and POW and DOC etc.
            It may just not exist for a period until George is 18 , if Charles is till alive by then.
            No one was actively DOC before Lazy Will.

            1. No George now is Prince George of Cambridge. When his father will be Prince William The Prince of Wales, George will be Prince George of Wales. He’ll also be Prince George of Cambridge too but his “of Wales” title will be superior so he’ll be “of Wales”. When William will be King then the Cambridge dukedom will be available.

            2. Pass to a non-royal?

         2. Could they make Harry Duke of Albany when he marries? This is so confusing to me; I wish they would just remain Prince or Princess.

         3. No. The higher status titles come first and cambridge last as in HRH POW, Duke of Cornwall, Duke of Rothesay, etc and finally Duke of Cambridge. Duke of Cambridge will simply be a very junior title after all the POW titles OR they may decide to do a double ducal title ie Duke of *Cornwall and Cambridge.

            * There is precedence for the double ducal title eg when the Queen’s grandfather suddenly became POW after being Duke of York for many years ( his elder brother, Albert Victor, died thus elevating George), he was known as Duke of Cornwall and York.

            Ditto the combined ducal titles of Clarence and Avondale. 2 different titles combined for Albert Victor, George V’s older brother. He died before he was named POW.

            **HM is still The Duchess of Edinburgh after all her Monarch status titles such that if she were to abdicate and go back to being a princess, she would be The Princess Elizabeth, Duchess pf Edinburgh as she was before she became Queen.

            **The new BRF website is really annoying. Historical information is difficult to find especially full titles held by various members. HM’s full title appears to have been shortened to the 3 salient points instead of the really long series of titles she holds. Ditto Charles.

            1. Herazeus I completely agree about the new website. The majority of the historical information is gone, or so far hidden, it might as well be.

               Cambridge isn’t an inherited title, right? Their son is a prince of Cambridge, and uses it as a de facto last name, but will not inherit that dukedom When the time comes, their son will likely be given the Duke of York title if Andrew has passed.

               When Harry is given a dukedom, does he retain “Wales” as any part of his title? Or does Wales get replaced completely with the new dukedom name?

            2. Cambridge will revert to the crown and they’ll all become ‘of Wales’.

               However, once Charles becomes King and William in his turn, the ‘of Wales’ part of their names disappears and they become ‘The’ Prince first name only.

               Meaning Charles, Anne, Andrew and Edward, being children of the monarch are The Prince Charles, The Princess Anne, The Prince Andrew and The Prince Edward. Without ducal titles, they remain only that.

               As an example, if Charles becomes King without Harry having a ducal title, he stops being Prince Henry of Wales and becomes The Prince Henry. William becomes The Prince William, Prince of Wales, Duke of Cornwall etc.

               To be clear, using Andrew as an example, his proper title is The Prince Andrew, Duke of York etc.

               The Duke of York is only given to the second son of the monarch. Assuming they aren’t upgraded to heir, they hold it for life.

               As long as Andrew is living, he is the only Duke of York even if he outlives Charles, William or PGtips.

               That means it’s not available to Harry, even when Charles becomes monarch.

               When he dies, the title will merge with the crown to be handed to the nect 2nd son of the monarch in need of such a title. If that happens when Charles is the monarch, then Harry will be the receipient of the title. If he dies when Willuam is the monarch then the title skips Harry due to his no longer being the son of the sitting monarch. Instead the next eligible receipient will be the 2nd son of William or 2nd son of PGtips.

               PGtips is the next eligible receipient of Charles’s titles after William because he is the eldest son and heir apparent of William who in turn is the same for Charles who in turn is the same for Elizabeth.

               Similarly, Charlotte is the next eligible receipient of the princess royal title assuming she outlives Anne and William becomes monarch. At that point, she will be the eldest daughter of the monarch. However, if Anne outlives King William V, Charlotte won’t be eligible because PGtips will be the monarch and she, his sister.

               Finally, when Harry is given a dukedom, he stops being ‘of Wales’and instead becomes ‘of new dukedom’. Just like William is no longer ‘of Wales’ and is now ‘of Cambridge’.

            3. Thank you!!!!!!

            4. Herazeus, thank you for that information. I’m really unclear on inherited and uninherited titles. So Cambridge is not inheritable. But what about York? If Andrew had a son, would Duke of York go to him or is it his only for his lifetime, and then it waits unused for the next the sovereign has two sons? By this logic, are any of the Queen’s children’s title inheritable? If Edward becomes the DoE, his son won’t get that title someday, right?

            5. Jet Texas: Only *Lancaster, Cornwall and York are uninheritable. Respectively held by Monarch (irrespective of gender), heir, 2nd son.

               *Lancaster is the only ducal title held singly. ONLY the monarch holds it. Their spouse and kids do not receive a courtesy Lancaster title. And it is always male ie The Queen is The Duke of Lancaster never Duchess of Lancaster.

               All other dukedoms, even ones dessignated for royal dukes are inheritable though the royal dukedoms lose their royal status if they go past grandsons in a single creation eg the Kents and Gloucesters have male grandchildren who will eventually inherit their dukedoms, but those dukes won’t be considered royal and eventually will be thought as ordinary as the current dukes of Richmond whose current creation was granted to a royal child (illegitimate) of Charles 2 and has since been continuously been inherited by a male descendant until it’s forgotten that it was once a royal dukedom.

               William and his kids are in a special position where they are in line for an upgrade to ‘of Wales’+ other ducal titles associated with William’s status as heir. These titles supersedes their other ducal titles. His kids’ titles are courtesy titles and change according to their father’s changed titles. They do not hold them in their own right.

               As i mentioned, they may decide to carry Cambridge as well as Cornwall like George V did when he combined Cornwall and York after his brother died and he was upgraded to heir.

               However, since Cornwall ducal title is higher status than Cambridge it is more likely that he will relinquish it and it will revert back to the crown.

               In practise, that is the preferred way to go.

               It is not a common situation where the ducal titles are combined, but it has happened so there is precedence.

            6. Herazeus, thank you again. I stand in awe of your knowledge of titles, honors, and other aspects of British nobility you have displayed on this blog. One last question, if I may. Not all dukedom titles come with land and responsibilities, right? There isn’t a duchy of York that Andrew earns a living off of, that I know of. But the Duke of Gloucester is not a royal Duke, but the dukedom has lands and lots of income.

            7. Not all dukedoms come with land or wealth especially ones created in the past 150yrs.

               Before that it came via grants from the King/parliament – see Marlborough and earlier than that it was a combination of service to the King and a spot of pillaging!!!

               Most dukedoms acquired land the old fashioned way via marriage – see Westminster, Devonshire etc, and holding onto it for dear life whilst nurturing it into wealth.

               Others like the Percy family were rewarded as far back as William the Conqueror and have simply held onto their lands since then, but those families are only a handful.

               Most dukedoms can’t afford to keep the land and have sold it off whilst keeping the titles – see Manchester, St Albans

               With regards the royal family and royal dukedoms, only Cornwall comes with lands or a duchy. The rest have to marry well or figure out how to make money over and above their trustfunds. Any wealth they currently enjoy is a combination of inherited wealth, largesse from HM (personal or taxpayer) and their own efforts..

               The Gloucesters are royal dukedoms. Ditto Kent.

               Even though they are considered minor royals, they are actually grandchildren of a monarch – George V, which means they are HRH Princes just like Elizabeth and Margaret.

               Their full titles are HRH Prince Richard, Duke of Gloucester and HRH Prince Edward, Duke of Kent and never forgetting HRH Prince Michael of Kent.

               Their heirs, Nicholas Earl of St Andrews and Alexander, Earl of Ulster are not *Princes and thus when they inherit the ducal titles, the dukedoms will cease to be royal dukedoms. Both men have sons who will, in turn, inherit the dukedoms etc and so

               *Like the HRH/Prince styles, the ‘royal dukedom’ designation stops at grandchild if the dukedom is inherited past that generation.

            8. Thank you again. I’m learning more with each of your posts!

            9. You are welcome at Jet Texas.

               Forgot to point out that Lancaster dukedom also comes with a duchy. That duchy was part of *creation/marital alliance whose proceeds finance the monarch. Yes, that’s on top of Sovereign grant.

               The duchy of Lancaster started out as private property belonging to the Earls of Lancaster. When the title was in danger of becoming extinct due to lack of male heirs, the family married one of the lesser sons of the King. This son was granted the title, which had been upgraded to duke shortly before this happy marriage (sarcasm) and the lands.

               When that son’s descendants usurped the throne, they already held the duchy of Lancaster and title. The title and lands were merged into the crown where they’ve been ever since.

               Since the crown has serviced the duchy for centuries – since early Plantagenet era, it’s impossible for the BRF to reclaim it as their own.

               There is room for fudging, but it may not be as clear cut as Cornwall which was deliberately created as a direct legal action of parliament decreeing it’s existence.

   2. The title “Prince of Wales” is the traditional title of the heir apparent to the throne, granted solely at the discretion of the Sovereign. William will NOT automatically become POW – Charles has to grant him the title. The title is not inherited and will merge with the Crown when Charles becomes King (he was not granted the title until 1958 – NOT at birth when his title was officially HRH Prince Charles of Edinburgh).

      Charles became Duke of Cornwall only when his mother ascended to the throne. The Dukedom of Cornwall can only be held by the oldest living son of the monarch who is also heir apparent (meaning someone who cannot be displaced by future births). Grandsons or women cannot hold the title so, if she had been first-born, Charlotte would never have become Duchess of Cornwall. I *believe* the title is inheritable, so William will become Duke of Cornwall when Charles becomes King.

      It is rather fun to speculate that Charles might dangle the “Prince of Wales” carrot in front of the lazy duo to make them get to work 😉

      1. I don’t think William would care about not getting the POW title, although he thinks he is entitled to everything. It is access to the Duchy money that is the big prize. W&K are already soaking it to the tune of $4 million a year. Wait until Charles is no longer able to rein in any of that spending.

         1. I tend to agree that William probably doesn’t give a hoot about it (no monetary incentive). But it would be the ultimate “SWF Diana” prize for Kate.

      2. +1000
         Spot on Szolo!

         Keep hiding the grandkids from royal grandpa and the family, continue to raised lambridge children as lazy middletons, without respest to the BRF HM (another generation of lazy useless selfish middletons offsprings), and let’s countdown to the next POW Duchy Estate!

         The people hopes are with POW HENRY, who seem to be on the path as Monarch, shadowing his dad, representing the sacrifice and duty of the Monarchy/ HM to the people and the world; as it was is in recent generation of royal gg/grandparents/BRF.

3. I guess they are visiting because people don’t think they will actually become the Prince/Princess of Wales. I REALLY don’t want to see that. The smugness of Kate being Princess is yuck!

   1. The picture used at the top of this article sums up the hardness of both. Ugh! Is it that people don’t THINK these numpties will become Prince and Princess of Wales, or prefer them NOT to become Prince and Princess of Wales?

      1. Both

4. Yes, many engagements, but how much do they really accomplish? In and out. Nice and fast!
   OK. I am glad they are working, but I really do think that the powers that be in PR land are pushing this for all it’s worth. How much more relevant if they spent many days supporting the mental health issues they are so keen about? I mean, days. Hours, hours, hours, and hours of meaningful work. I guess that is too much to ask.

   I hate to sound so negative. We are always clamoring for them to do more. But, doing more doesn’t mean just appearing and disappearing so quickly. It means rolling up one’s sleeves, digging into a cause and doing ard work. Not walking away and forgetting about it. Staying with it and doing work that is not really even covered by the media. It’s not just dressing up, smiling and jumping in and out of a car so quickly that those who waited so long to see them, those who work so hard themselves, find their own heads spinning, as the Royals wave goodbye and drive off into the glorious sunset of their privileged lifestyle.
   GRRRR!

   1. Right- it means doing what Harry does!

   2. Thank you!!
      Looking at their engagements you get no sense of what they stand for or what they are trying to achieve. It’s random stuff, some mental health stuff but the time spent is so short and there’s no soundbites so again we have no clue what they want to achieve there. Even their royal tours don’t have an agenda other than be photographed. And it’s ridiculous that 5 years in Kate still needs babysitting.

5. Plain and simple. This is just another PR move to counter the backlash of their freebie vacations and accusations that they vacation way too much for too little work. The cycle has become way too predictable. Little “work”….Escape to a secret posh vacation via private jet….Media catches them red-handed…Pile on the engagements. Rinse Repeat!!

   1. +1. Vacation damage control PR was my immediate thought when I saw the headline.

6. A food festival really?!? Made me laugh. That’ll be fun to see them both not partaking of food.

   1. Equally amusing is the visit to the flower people in the Scilly Isles; at Chelsea, neither was desperately interested, with William not knowing what was growing on his own property at Anmer.

7. Do we know if William finished the agriculture program he was doing?

   1. I heard he didn’t. Some future Duke of Cornwall.

      1. Finished? Come on this is Will it’s not a word he understands.

         1. True, I should have known better but i thought it was being tailored for him.

            1. Even when stuff is tailored for him, he never finishes.

            2. Petulant whiny lifestyle seem to be leaning towards preparing to use, ‘mental and emotionally lacking and incapable of taking the duties as Monarch’! Never mind his family of four plus ILs, spending millions, using status and perks as HRH heir… While Prince Harry carry the weight of the Wales Line.

         2. William was meant to come and study Welsh for a term at the university the same time I was there. Apparently Kate was insecure that William would not come back. That is what I gathered.

            1. Was he really? At Aberystwyth like Charles?

               I love Welsh. It’s such a beautiful language. I’ve had fun trying to learn it on Duolingo. One would think William would know a bit as he lived on Anglesey but I’ve heard his Welsh is absolutely awful.

            2. Charles came to Aberystwyth in 1969 according to google. A friend from university’s dad was staying at the Welsh Hall and him and some friends had to move out of the Welsh hall to make room for Charles. William was meant to come but didn’t. William was dating Kate at the time or whatever their idea of dating was.

            3. When it was first announced that William was going to be stationed in Wales during his stint with the RAF, i thought that was a way for him to get to know Wales, welsh people, culture etc.

               Given his absolute need to hide in the welsh countryside, unlike Kate who was mostly in Berkshire or London, i am disappointed that he learnt nothing. Not language, culture or even food.

   2. He did manage to go on vacation twice during it, so completion is doubtful. Leaving their son behind for 10 days (with brand new nanny) for the Maldives. Hunting with Jecca in Spain.

   3. If William had finished it, KP would have announced it to garner him some good PR (like they did for his air ambulance training), but they didn’t, so William didn’t.

      1. Yep, if we know that Kate is a certified diver we’d definitely know if William completed the course.

         1. I get the feeling Kate is in competition (in her head) with Jecca. Or was. What is devils advocate? Is that just not taking sides?

            1. Being a devil’s advocate means taking a position they may/ may not necessarily agree with in order to unpack thoughts further, for the sake of debate.

8. This sounds like part of the preparation to take over the running of the Duchy of Cornwall. They need to be prepared, it’s a massive role and could happen soon.

   1. I think you are right. Did I read that Charles was taking an active role in the Duchy of Lancaster to spare the Queen? So it would make sense that William would step up and help with the Duchy of Cornwall. It is their main source of income via Charles.

      1. William… Step up.

         Those words don’t go together.

      2. They’ve been trying to get him to step up since he left university. He interned at Chatsworth in his early 20s to understand how estates are run, they tailored a Cambridge course for him to the same end. No bueno.

         Harry has helped out more at the duchy than Willuam.

         1. Is there any possibility that the Duchy of Cornwall could be transferred to Harry, particularly if he is already undertaking aspects of the role?

            1. Legally, no. It goes to the eldest son of the monarch.

               Per Wiki: ‘The eldest son of the reigning British monarch inherits possession of the duchy and title of Duke of Cornwall at birth or when his/her parent succeeds to the throne, but may not sell assets for personal benefit and has limited rights and income as a minor. If the monarch has no male children, the rights and responsibilities of the duchy belong to The Crown and there is no Duke. ‘

            2. Thanks Ellie.

            3. No problem! 🙂 It’s a bit confusing. I find it interesting that George V was Duke of Cornwall when he was not the eldest son; obviously his brother died, but this being before his father was king so perhaps that had something to do with it.

               I think only if William kicked the bucket could Harry have that title. And that won’t happen.

            4. Well, not wishing an early death upon him, but you never know. As has been pointed out, the first-born has often missed out on capturing the British throne.

            5. Ellie, George V became Duke of Cornwall because his brother died thus making George the eldest living son of the Monarch and therefore his heir. The same scenerio occurred for Charles 2 who was a second son and already named duke of York. Once Prince Henry died, Charles became the eldest son AND heir apparent and immediately upgraded to Duke of Cornwall and POW.

               The Duke of Cornwall has to be the heir apparent above all else. Therefore if William steps out of line, he can’t be Duke of Cornwall because he won’t be the heir anymore despite being the eldest.

               Albert Victor died before he was created heir and named POW as well as Duke of Cornwall. That scenerio demonstrates that the Princely, ducal title and duchy aren’t as automatic as everyone thinks they are.

               In light of Albert Victor’s death, the next living heir was quickly named and given the titles. Ditto David and Charles.

               Bertie (George VI) never had the chance to be Duke of Cornwall/POW because he went straight from York to King in a matter of minutes.

               In the absence of a Male heir apparent, the title reverted to the crown and the duchy was held in trust until one became available in the form of Charles, our current POW.

            6. I’ll add that Henry 8 also started out as Duke of York before his elder brother Aurthur died. After Arthur’s death, 10yr old Henry was re-styled Duke of Cornwall despite being the 2nd son of the monarch. However, his brother’s death upgraded him to eldest (in reality the only son)

               Unltimately, the recent interpretation of the wording has given rise to the notion that duke of Cornwall is a rigidly held title that can only be granted to the eldest son of the monarch even if said son is dead when really it is meant for the eldest LIVING son who is also the heir apparent.

         2. Yes, Harry has been photographed visiting and working at the Duchy properties in Romania. William, no. I see a future where William gets the titles & money and does nothing, and dutiful Harry slogs along doing all the work.

9. KMR, may I request that where/if possible you document the length of W+K’s engagements in the 2016 Appearance totals?

   Date: 1 September
   Engagement 1/ Truro: 35 minutes

   We could then easily discern the hours involved over a year rather than days. The latter can mislead – recalling that HuffPo was advertised as a day working when it amounted to no more than an hour. And not include travel time since that does not figure in anyone’s work hours.

   W+K and KP and BP seem to prefer obfuscation and misdirection. Let’s look at categories* of engagement AND its length. Many of these engagements seem largely decorative, and of the ‘express’ lane variety. It would be interesting to compare types of engagements vs time spent. How long have the engagements been for Ben Ainslie’s charity?

   I’d be interested in comparing the type and length of Bhutan/India engagements with the Canada tour. When the papers put out the drivel of ‘x’ engagements, it would be good to break it down further with: ‘x’ engagements = 120 hours over 365 days = 3 x 40 hour weeks for 4 million pounds p.a. subsidy.

   Looking as if you are doing something isn’t the same as doing something. No yay from me, I’m afraid.

   * such as:
   Mental health
   Patronages
   Sport
   Opening of facility
   Tourist activity
   Social

   1. Except for stuff they are genuinely interested in eg Sir Ben’s sailing and that trip to the set of Downton Abbey, they rarely stay longer than 45mins tops.

      When they were first married, they averaged an hour at an engagement, and only one engagement per day.

      As the years have gone by, they’ve cut that short to an average of 35mins. When they do these away days or combine several engagements on the same day, they average 20mins per engagement.

      That Huffpo blogging day was really 45mins where 20mins were the photos with the kids/groupsand 25mins of the photographed editorial meetings.

      When thry stay longer, it’s noted and comments are made by various reporters.

      We know how long they stay because the reporters tweet timings in real time as engagements are taking place.

      When end of year totals are posted, those are really hours not days.

      It’s forgivable in other royals because we have proof that they do more for their charities or prepare in a substantial way ahead of the the photo pap stroll, plus they have other activities on their plate where as WK only contribute those public pap strolls and not much else.

      1. Thanks, Herazeus.

         Their yearly tally does not compare well to other royals, for sure, and it is clear that little, if any, prep is done for engagements. They know they don’t have to as no-one is going to call them out on their negligible preparation. To be fair, many of their engagements do not require much more than turning up. But there is greater information to be extracted beyond just figures.

         I’m after the overall snapshot of their activities in one place: number, type and length for people to be able to discern a clearer picture of where their time is spent and where these engagements fall over a year. At present, one has to put the figures together from a variety of sources – tweets, articles – to figure it out. I’m thinking of one info-graphic which I will try to figure out this year. The NY Times has an excellent series on the Olympics:
         http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2016/08/15/sports/olympics/usain-bolt-and-120-years-of-sprinting-history.html

10. Gosh, after reading this all I could think was, Kate and Will are just padding their numbers. 11 engagements in 2 days, is obviously just trying to get their numbers without actually having to invest in something. These will be such brief visits, they don’t really have to do much but smile and shake people’s hands. It is such fluff, which is all they can do.

    I am so disappointed because I want them to care and so far they just want to appear to be working without actually doing anything. It is all a smoke-screen. Now their numbers will look so much better this year, but there was no substance there, only fluff engagements that they only spent maybe 30 minutes at each. It is so obvious.

    1. Agree: ‘no investment’ sums it up. And mostly unnecessary fluff. What good do these engagements offer people in real terms? We know that it costs city councils in terms of security, but what are the benefits?

       No doubt William and Kate are salivating the prospect of the Duchy income that will be directed their way, should the monarchy survive. I really don’t understand why people expect these two to care; there is no incentive for them to do so. Neither is warm, nor personable, their histories comprising nothing but self-involvement and personal pleasures. Why, oh why, do people expect anything different?

       1. I agree Jen, I’m constantly surprised by those who believe that once W&K are the P&P of Wales that they will suddenly step up to the plate and do the work for which they are handsomely rewarded. I have asked on other sites, when this argument comes up, what in their shared and individual work history leads you to believe that they will one day become hard working royals. Interestingly, no one has been able to answer that question, usually I’m just called jealous and negative.

          1. Lauri, you are challenging what they have unquestioningly accepted, and that strikes a nerve because you might just be right. Hence the name-calling.

             I’m guessing that the Queen et al are banking on the Cambridge family’s attractiveness to secure the monarchy’s future. It seems they have put all their Fabergé eggs into one basket without putting the requisite work into building William’s character and work ethic, as well as guiding him in more personal matters ie selection of a suitable partner. They now can’t get any traction from William and Kate. Given the public response to W+K – work shy, extravagant, not engaged – I’m curious as to whether the BRF has a Plan B.

             1. Are Faberge eggs still made? 😉

             2. I’m sure Kate would know!

             3. Faberge eggs into one basket.

                I love that comment. I think that sums up the Middleton ambition.

                I think it will be whether William and his family are likable. They have a long road ahead. Sorry for the snark. Prove us wrong William and Kate.

             4. How about all their Faux Faberge Eggs (Made in China)?

             5. To be fair, technically, faberge eggs are still made. The great granddaughters got the rights back to the name and mainly make jewelry (egg pendants/charms) but a couple yrs ago they made an egg for a Saudi Royal family so one could say a new type of imperial egg is being made.
                I doubt Kate knew that story tho.

          2. They’ve become accustomed to the glitzy celebrity life, hobnobbing with the global elite and 1% crowd. At this point I think they are so spoiled and elitist that they feel uncomfortable in the provincial sphere with common folk. In the future it will present a huge challenge. Giving up their jollies for a life of duty and public service will for them feel like drudgery. I don’t know if he’ll ever be fit to be king.

       2. Devil’s advocate: What do these types of engagements do for the people when it’s Charles and Camilla making them?

          1. To be fair, I’d say that nothing much eventuates from C+C’s visits either. They are essentially PR events for royalty ie being seen as relevant and ‘caring’ to keep support (and source of income) flowing.

             Meanwhile, kids are dragged out of school to bolster the crowd to show popularity for the inevitable photo ops, the local authority is billed for security, and organisations spend precious resources on sprucing up the place to impress royals.

             Devil’s advocate: if taxpayer money was not provided to the BFR, would they still perform these kind of visits as well as their charity patronages? After all, millions of people volunteer their services to charities – really active participation, not window dressing – without any remuneration.

             1. The Prince’s Trust, Duchy contribute to the community and good of the people, so the POW and DoC visit is important to the people.

                Petulant lazy is not afforded the same.

    2. These are the types of events Charles and Camilla do when in Cornwall or Wales. They’re there to get out and meet people, and that’s what these types of events allow them to do. Not every event they do is for their patronages or causes, and that’s fine.

       While I think William and Kate need to focus on their patronages and causes more, they also need to do more of these types of engagements, too – the “bread and butter” stuff where they just meet members of the public. They just need to do more in general.

       1. I completely agree. Even though it screams PR response to their France trip, these are the types of trips and engagements they should be doing anyways. These events that are just about meeting and recognizing the people are a part of every monarchy still around today.

          Though, unsurprisingly, it is a little late for them to start visiting Cornwall and the Duchy now. I mean, it took them a year and a half to do any official visit to Cambridge after their wedding, which I thought was ridiculous at the time. But I can’t think of any good reason why it takes them so long to do these official visits other than WK are just lazy.

       2. I agree they need to be doing these type of engagments. The problem is, they need to be doing charity engagments as well and they are not. There is no substance when the only engagements they tend to do are ones like these out of the blue. That is why it appears to only being done to bump of their numbers. If they actually worked the rest of the year and made their charities a priority, then a 2 day visit like this one wouldn’t seem out of place, but rather just part of their job. However, Will and Kate try to do the bare minimum and avoid the real work.

          It is a great thing to get out and meet the people. That is what a future monarch should do. And yes, Charles does this, but he also does a fair amount of substance work and not just fluff. Will and Kate prefer to fluff and superficial events.

       3. These are ‘bread and butter’ PR events for the BRF to help keep its status and privilege in place. It’s for them, first and foremost. Not for the people. The BRF needs to be seen, otherwise its relevance and future would be questioned.

          If ‘ordinary’ people feel good after ‘royals’ troop through a place for 35 minutes or so and make polite conversation, well, that’s nice, I guess. But is it ‘needed’? It’s not as if the BRF does anything solid with meeting the public, and to the public’s benefit. And at a cost of one third of a billion pounds each year? If people need someone famous to look up to to feel good, there are any number of celebrities/ those of merit to fill that void, at little to no cost to the community.

          1. Then we must say that about everyone, not just William and Kate. We can no longer like Sophie, Victoria, Maxima, etc. since all of them are just doing the things they do because it’s good PR for them and keeps them in power.

             1. Yes.

                And quite frankly people appreciate the visits. Go look at when other royals have visited people. Especially after disasters or being there to thank a community for something. It gets them a lot of visible PR, and raises the spirits of people. It’s why these royal visits places and doing random stuff like this /is/ important. Like after the floods in Scotland Charles went up there to show people it’s open for business, come to these tourist spots, etc. Folks appreciate those sorts of royal visits.

             2. Contemporary royal families are a business. They need to do ‘x’ in order to receive ‘y’. The BRF refers to itself as The Firm ie a business entity. Its product is the mystery and kudos associated with hereditary political and social power amassed over hundreds of years.

                Today, its income derives from state collected taxes. To safeguard its state-derived privilege, status and on-going income, the BRF performs various roles, one being a funded version of noblesse oblige. Even royalty refer to this as their ‘work’. But as the Queen has been known to say, one has to be seen to be believed ie visibility. Hence, royalty visiting people and taking on patronages. The BRF spends an extraordinary amount of money on PR, and as we have discovered, much of self-serving, full of misdirection and obfuscation.

                The problem comes from equating royalty as inherently good, kind, superior, and caring people BECAUSE they undertake visits and patronages. It is the deal made for the continued flow of privilege. Would they undertake these tasks if the state did not fund them? I’d say, probably not; they may elect to put their own money and time into causes close to their hearts but not on the scale now seen. Millions of people volunteer substantial amounts of their non-paid time and personal funds simply because they want to and want to give back.

                As individuals, certain royals perform better, having good communication skills, a decent work ethic, and are probably pleasant people as well. If they do their job well, what’s not to like? I’d extend that ‘like’ to anyone putting in a good effort.

                W+K attract criticism because they clearly only care about the privilege part. They bring into sharp focus the problem with hereditary privilege in a modern context. The best examples of royal behaviour come when they do something not expected of them, something derived from pure empathy, and where their visit can genuinely do some good.

             3. I understand. My point is, is that if we are going to say that W&K doing these “fluff”/”bread and butter” type of engagements is a negative because they clearly only care about themselves, getting better PR, upping their year end numbers, then we must say the same thing for all the royals doing these types of engagements because *all* of them only do these engagements to make themselves look good, seem hardworking and deserving of millions in taxpayer money, and to up their year end numbers.

                We cannot say “Good on Sophie” when we negatively criticize Kate for doing the exact same thing. Some royals perform better than others, but at the end of the day they all only do these engagements for the same selfish reasons. Both Sophie and Camilla do these type of “fluff”/”bread and butter” engagements all the time. They get praised for it, but we’re negatively criticizing Kate for adding these to her schedule. If we want to say these “fluff”/”bread and butter” engagements are a waste of time and are only done because it makes the royals look good and don’t bring the people any benefit, then we must say it for all royals. Camilla does more of these “fluff”/”bread and butter” engagements than she does engagements for her patronages. About half of Sophie’s engagements are these “fluff”/”bread and butter” engagements. Even if Camilla and Sophie are putting in a good effort to show up and be engaged, they are still only doing so out of the same selfish reasons W&K are: for good PR and to keep their royal power.

             4. Yes, is the short answer, though that seems brusque.

                Royal public activities are not altruism, not ‘noblesse oblige’ in the understood sense; it’s part of the contract for accepting funds. As long as funding flows, the royals will do what they do. Yes, it is performed in self-interest and no doubt in wanting to be of use too, though doesn’t every job attracting remuneration do so as well? Devil’s advocate again: KMR, do you really think that all these engagements are performed just because they want to, out of a sense of duty alone?

                Hereditary privilege will be challenged in a world that champions egalitarianism. To counter that, the BRF ensures its activities are visible and many, hence the massive PR juggernaut. Why is there such an emphasis on Court Circular numbers if not to justify royals’ continued existence? There is no attempt to show impact. The BRF is a well-oiled machine; it has influence at the highest levels in Great Britain and abroad, some of which might disturb its citizens. Moves to take over the Duchy of Cornwall, avoid scrutiny from FoI, ongoing PR (which includes visibility to appear relevant to British life) are all devices employed to continue shoring up one family’s privilege. https://www.opendemocracy.net/uk/jp-o-malley/british-monarchy

                It’s up to the people of Britain to decide whether the royals are value for money. What comprises ‘hard work’? Does it deserve billions of public money? Is it necessary to British life, or a tradition people are comfortable with? No doubt, the debate will play out at some point.

                Thanks for this discussion, KMR; it’s always good to clarify one’s thoughts.

             5. I look at it this way…the people via taxes pays the royal family. In return the royal family has undertakes royal engagements which includes both patronages and bread and butter stuff. W&K deserve to be criticised because they mostly do the latter and even then it’s usually in response to some negative articles and their interactions with the people leaves a lot to be desired. Sophie et al deserve praise because despite the fact that it is for PR, they do the job well i.e. really interact with the people and raise awareness of the area, and also schedule enough of these events. They don’t just do them to cover up their negative press which is even more selfish.
                To use a normal-world example, most of us to some level go to work for a selfish reason – money. But despite this, we praise good doctors, teachers, bankers etc. because they do the job. They provide the value for the money. And we criticise bad workers who do the bare minimum to get the money.

             6. Exactly, EL.

                We discern a level of genuine engagement from Sophie, Camilla etc: they respect whom they are visiting through adequate preparation, and being engaged while there. At the other end of the spectrum, William and Kate appear unprepared, and unless the visit is of personal interest to them, go through the motions and leave as quickly as possible.

             7. Very good points EL. Most of us work to support ourselves. Are we to condemn royals who work for the same reasons, to keep the very fancy roof over their heads and themselves gainfully employed?

                The job of royal these days is PR, that is the nature of the job.

                “We are never tired and we all love hospitals.” Queen Mary

                “Never complain, never explain.” – Queen Elizabeth II

                It being a PR job doesn’t mean we have to no longer like the people who do the job well. I like those other royals because they show up and do the job. The job for which they are richly paid in houses and lifestyles. They show up, do not complain, act engaged, act like they care.

                W&K do not do the job, complain constantly, and always act like they’d rather be anywhere than working (unless Ben Ainslie is there, or William is at a sporting event).

                Who knows if Princess Anne even cares about children, but she’s worked with Save the Children for decades. Philip may not care at all about science and technology, but his science and technology training group and conference for the Commonwealth has done loads of good. Charles may not care that other people do not have job training, but the Prince’s Trust has helped over 800,000 young adults get job training and start businesses.

                They do the job, even if they aren’t interested in it. Even if it bores them silly, and some of it might be incredibly boring. But they never show it. They do not complain. To me that is admirable.

             8. I don’t agree with those who pronounce noblesse oblige dead. And duty. I do believe that in the BRF her maj and Charles have a sense of duty, and unlike her maj, Charles has a sense of noblesse oblige . That bread and butter walking among their people, being with the people in times of trouble (Charles, in reviving Dumfries, engendering jobs, for example), can be as gratifying for them as for the people. There is reciprocity.

                But there is also the dark side of the BRF- like sociopathic Mafia families who favour their communities with their support in return for fealty and permission to live off those members.

                The question really is- if push comes to shove and the BRF had to choose between duty and keeping the BRF in the pink and alive, which would it be? At the moment it’s both, but if push comes to shove, even when not, IMO the BRF would choose a genteel scorched earth policy.

                Sadly, this is what Charles is attempting by trying to annex to Duchy of Cornwall to the BRF as a private holding, in essence stealing it from the people of Cornwall. Shady and corrupt beyond words, this basically puts his good works into question.

                In the end they’re all entitled asses who believe they rule by divine right and by history. They give the people what they want because the BRF wants even more to keep themselves alive and kicking and super, super rich without much labour.

                Time for a republic. They’re all pretty despicable in the end. Trust no one.

11. I have to wonder if these engagements are planned months in advance. Or do the royal duo expect the people involved to just drop any plans for them to come and visit. Apart from the rowing where I see genuine enthusiasm I wonder what Kate will talk about at a flower show or eat at a food festival. So much could be achieved apart from soundbites and quick hellos as Prince William and Kate have so much influence. I grew up in Cornwall and envious of them going to the Isles of Scilly. I wonder if they are staying on the Scilly Isles. There must be a lot of security going.

    1. If Eugenie marries her boyfriend I wonder if Eugenie will be a plain Mrs or does she keep her title of HRH Princess of York?

       1. She keeps her title and the Mrs part comes after because it is lower.
          So Princess Anne when married to Mark Phillips was Her Royal Highness The Princess Anne, Mrs Mark Phillips.
          Queen Victoria’s daughter Princess Louise was Her Royal Highness The Princess Louise, Duchess of Argyll and the Duchess title was from marriage.

       2. She keeps her title. Eg Princesses Anne and Alexandra remained HRH Princess Anne Philips/Lawrence or HRH Princess Alexandra Ogilvy or in the case of various married children of the Kents and Gloucesters, they are all Lady X + married surname eg Lady Helen Taylor or Lady Davinia Lewis.

          1. Thank you both.

       3. She keeps her title.

12. They work, so that’s the good part. But actually that’s what they should be doing all the time! There should be no excuses because of being young, newly married, children or Wills “job”! And they shouldn’t be praised because they do what they are paid to do… even less as they actually do a bad job. But maybe we are going to remember bit more than Kates new clothes, Wills bored face or them saying smt stupid from that visit. Would be a nice change

13. This seems to be very similar to C&C’s visits to Cornwall and the Isles.

    Is it Charles giving William an ultimatum to work? Who knows.

    We know Charles and HM have tried preparing William but he’s been resistant for years to that effect, preferring to gallivant around and drop things when he gets bored and go on holiday after holiday paid for by other people…

    1. Yes, Charles and Camilla visit Cornwall and Wales every year and do these types of engagements. It’s just about meeting people and keeping that connection between the people and the royals alive.

14. At least they are working more. Definitely orders must have come from high above, especially after the run of bad press the Cambridge duo have received this year. Pah! And these 2 were so hard to convince people that the Queen really doesn’t interfere in their schedule in any way; they can do whatever it is that they want.

    All these quick visits are a compromise between Queen & Charles ordering WK to work more vs. WK not wanting to work but still take the salary and perks that they get from the public to do their so-called “job”. This is what we are ever going to get from these two, it appears.

    But, it’s good that these two are doing more bread butter Royal events like attending flower shows and food festivals, where they really need to interact with the general public.

    1. “And these 2 were so hard to convince people that the Queen really doesn’t interfere in their schedule in any way; they can do whatever it is that they want.”

       That’s an exhibition of their huge ego and narcissism to the nth degree. It’s so very obvious that they were endeavoring to shake the *work shy* label that was pasted onto them by the media. And, it’s also their way of conveying to the public that their work ethic and behavior is above reproach, is pleasing to the Queen, and that’s all that matters to them. The duo of W&K want for the public to understand that the Queen views them as extremely capable and are not needful of supervision, i.e., the Queen trusts them implicitly.

       In their minds everything is peachy *keen*, honky-dory, and they are the epitome of perfection. Hence, listen up one and all, if the Queen is not complaining, then who are you to criticize us? I didn’t believe a word of what waity said during that interview, because there have been instances wherein Kate has lied and her lies just don’t add up. For example, in India, when waity was asked about how she manages to maintain her thin body, she replied that she runs after her children. LOL.

       1. I suppose she does run after them but her calorie intake is so low she would soon collapse on her manicured lawns and they would race the nanny instead.

15. Sounds like another holiday really. Much of what they will do are things I would do if I was vacationing there…

    Luckily, the Duchy is advised by the Prince’s Council (11 members plus Charles as Chairman). One has to be impressed with the work that Charles has done to improve the estate and its condition since he became the Duke. Left to his own devices, William would botch it up for sure!

    1. I think William will take the money and not add anything to the estate. He will leave it at a lesser value than he inherits it simply because he puts no efforts at all in knowing how to run the place.

       1. I think Harry will do all the work behind the scenes, get no money and no credit. Just like now!

          1. +100

    2. William is a prime example of all talk and no action. He is akin to an hurricane that leaves a footprint of massive destruction from the path it’s travelled. Albeit, both QE and Charles’ indulgences and coddling towards William were that of love, it’s obvious that they have created a 34-year old monster. William is now set in his ways and I very much doubt that his thought processes can be altered to bring about meaningful and lasting change. We can forget about Kate as she is utterly hopeless and will probably become even more lazy with the upcoming years. It’s pretty obvious that someone feels that Kate cannot be trusted to do any kind of work by herself. William is now a staple by her side. George and Charlotte have two fine examples of wastrel parents. How sad!

       W&K have quite a racket going on with respect to their pseudo “work” appearances. I suppose since they are approaching the last quarter of the year we’ll see quite a few of these two-some visits which will give a boost to their low numbers. Their MO to sprinkle their calendars with a few “work-related” attendances, and then go off on one of their freebie trips. I read that the last freebie in France was due to Carole’s friendship with the owners of that property. It’s probably safe to assume that another freebie is looming on the horizon after two days of such gruelling work, they’ll need it. And, Kate says to William, “Let’s see from whom can we scrounge another freebie?”

16. William and Kate may be going to do bread and butter type engagements like Charles and Camilla do. But I don’t get the feeling of W÷K actually engaging with the public, Kate often looks peeved and William annoyed with her and Iddon’t get a sense of them doing anything more than just phoning it in. Say what you want about Camilla but she does add value to whatever she does.

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